Hypancistrus hybrid

I have a group of Hypancistrus sp. L340 in 140 l. tanks. As I don't have enough spare volume and my group of L340 is quite young, I moved all my redundant hypancistrus males to the same tank. So there are in the tank 10 L340, 2 males L411, one L411 fry - subadult L411 and 3 males Hypancistrus sp. Lower Shingu.

Today I've found eggs of in one of the caves. The father is L411, the mother seems to be L340, becouse I have no other suspected pleco.



I moved the eggs away to fry tank. I know that hybrids are bad. I didn't wanted to make any (I thought my L340 are to young to breed). I will remove the males from this tank. But now it is interesting for me, what will develop from the eggs. Of course I'm not going to sell them. I'm not sure that the eggs will survive at all, because they are too young. It seems that they were laid yesterday.

PS: Please don't judge me for making hybrids, because I’m already judging myself

you may be surprised, my L340 are tiny, and i mean tiny! i couldn't tell any differences in them which led me to believe they were all one sex and too young, yet i had 2 breeding pairs in the group.
very interested to see what pops out of the eggs though

The subject of hybrids is for me a rather annoying one.
I believe most Hypans are variants’ of different types of fish
I see no problems with what people call hybrids I prefer the term variants, This so called hybridization in my opinion exists in the wild and is the reason why we get so many different variants’ of this genus.

Hypans are a genus that in the wild has very little that predates apon them. This is evident from the very small amount of eggs they have. This would lead to large groups expanding and “Clashing" with other large groups thus forming a new variant.
I agree that distance would limit the type of variants, so a hypan from the Xingu drainage would never normally meet a hypan from the Orinoco but with the movement of fish by collectors and illegal trading any thing can happen.
Most Hypans are being shipped through Columbia or Peru and should any escape they will survive and breed causing a new variant.
Until we have defined description we can’t say what is what.

go for it

im all for it.... but as you stated you wouldnt sell them to anybody unsuspecting... and you'll prob find some fry will look like dad and some will look like mum and maybe 1 might be a mix of both parents....

but whatever happens keep us posted this is very interesting..... :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I am also interested in how they turn out and as long as you don't pass them off as anything but what they are then who is to judge?

i'd buy them from you in a second- i have no ethics...... i am a hybrid in disguise!

You shouldn't feel bad about this, I'd be pleased to see what they end up like.

Good you've kept an eye on them in the tank and have some idea of who the parents could be.

totally agree with everyone , you sound like you take good care of you plec's, taking time to observe there behaviours etc. The fact you know who , when and how is all credit to you. An honest mistake. So get that weight off ya shoulders and keep us aprised of the situation.

respect to you and the parents
cc

What size are the 340's?

Thanks for replies

What size are the 340's?

Click to expand...

Up to 7 cm TL. And up to 1,5 years old.


To be clear my L411 not actually look like real L411. I purchased them as L260, but as they arrived I noticed that they are not L260.
I created a thread to ID them. And as far I remember right there were two variants:
1. L411
2. Hybrid L260XL66 (pleco22 suggested it)
Below the photo of this pleco marked as L411

The fish that I have in tank and wich could be suspected in spawn:
1. L411 (or L260XL66)
half a year old photo:


I've got 2 100% males

2. L340
Unfortunatly don't have good photos
a year old photo:


I've got 10 fish aproximetly 1,5 years old.

3. H. "lower Xingu"


I have 3 males of them. I remember that one of them not 100% male.

I counted 20 eggs in the clutch, so I decided to look for thin fish that could be suspected in laying of 20 eggs. And I found one H."lower Xingu" very thin (usually my fish quite well fed), it seems that this fish had laid the eggs before. So it could be that I have quite a hairy H."lower Xingu" female. But still I have a hybrid, may be L411X H."lower Xingu"б not L411XL340.

Hi
The Hypan in the Photo is not what is listed as L411. From the tail and eyes I would say it is one of the L066 variants’. Some time ago a German company listed some fish as L173b claiming they were German breed. They were I am quite sure a variant caused by either a natural or tank crossing of some L173, s with L066.
Again with out an auditable trail from the catch location it’s a nightmare and we have in the hobby right now I am sure variants’ of variants’.
Your descriptions are quite right in saying H "Lower Xingu"6
Basically most of the "scribble" hypans are from the lower Xingu areas and most of the spotted hypans from other areas.
Having said that with the so called ban on exports and the amount of deaths during importing Hypans I would say a very low percentage of the hypans we see in the UK are "true" blood lines.
I was in a LFS a few weeks ago and they had a tank full of what were claimed to be L333 wild caught, I pushed the manager on this and he admitted they were tank breed from some were in Europe.
The difference in patterns and the shape and size made me think they could have been some form of "Cross breed very nice shade of black and white almost as vibrant as the L173, s you see in books.
with the amount of people that could have brought and spawned these fish over the next ten years I would expect a large amount of wonderful hypans to come up for sale. Apart from the 6 or 7 described Hypans you can’t say for sure what is what and the L number system has very little use now with Hypans.

hmmm very nice looking male variant just the same.... just thinking i have a male 260 i can put with a 66 female...... maybe another day when im not so busy!!!

very interesting - maybe in years to come we'll get designer hypans ???

I removed these two bad eggs.

But on the third day more eggs bacame damaged:
The eggs 2 days out of cave:


I removed all bad eggs again, and counted 9 good eggs left.
The egg clutch while cleaning:


While removing of bad eggs on of the fry left the egg shell, but it was too early and it died later.


I missed the fourth day with taking photos. Between fourth and fifth days I lost 6 more eggs. And only 3 left.
The eggs 4 days out of cave:


In the evening I found two fry were half out of egg shell with damaged yolk. I removed these two fry and the only one egg left.

On the next day the last fry left the egg with out any problem, and looked like quite healthy.
The fry 1 day:


The fry 2 day:


The fry 3 day:


The fry 4 day:






So currently I have only one hybrid fry, but maybe it is even for better.

hi, nice fish.
are you really sure the adults are really all male? what are you basing this on? it is not uncommon for people to mis-sex a hypan.

Well, this was an interesting read, I think it's sweet, and you could be right maybe it's nature at work

Fins crossed for the cute little fella.

Hope the little one makes it x

are you really sure the adults are really all male? what are you basing this on? it is not uncommon for people to mis-sex a hypan.

Click to expand...

I'm sure for that I have 2 males L411, and one of them is a father. I based on the all sex aspects. The strongest aspect after male's body shape, is that both L411 have (not strongly, but still have) hairy back, like Panaque males have. I never noticed such hairy back of hypancistrus females.
Well, there is quite a few chances that I could have a pair of L411, but it will be very, very surprising for me.

Yesterday, the fry began to eat. I'll post new photos tomorrow

i watch with interest. cheers jk :thumbup: