ro water

scottie73

Member
Apr 21, 2009
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hampshire england
hey all
i keep all my fish in treated tap water,but have been reading alot of breeding logs that say people use ro water for different types of plec/fish...just wanted to know whats the best way to introduce ro water to fish that have always been kept (by me) in treated tap water? should i mix a percent of ro with tap water each water change???

scottie
 

Andrew

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May 3, 2009
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Renfrewshire, Scotland, UK.
Treated tap water is fine, if your tap water isn't too hard or has a high ph.

If you have high ph tap water, or your tap water is very hard, then it is much better to use an ro filter to make softer water for your tanks, which will make it easier to breed your fish in the long run.

It really comes down to what your tap water parameters is, and the fish you want to breed.
 
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scottie73

Member
Apr 21, 2009
153
0
16
hampshire england
my tap water is hard,that is why i am going to start introducing some ro water,i have lda 08's that are all at breeding size and some rams that need softer water to breed...or so i have read????
 

Andrew

Member
May 3, 2009
313
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Renfrewshire, Scotland, UK.
When i first changed from tap water to ro water, i gave each tank a 1/4 water change each day for a week, before i started doing any larger water changes with ro water.

My fish were fine with this.
 

macvsog23

Pleco Profiles Team - RIP FRIEND
May 1, 2009
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You best route is to go for a HMA unit and a RO unit
This enables you to mix your water to suite the species.

I will try to explain HMA and RO

HMA is a means of removing heavy metals and solid matter.

First we have to understand water has many things that get added to it over the course of supply.

At first the water companies add various chemicals to ensure they meet the legal requirements. The main items are chloride fluoride and phosphate. All have a sound reason behind being added.
Next on its journey to your tap water “Picks up” various salts, metals and chemicals from the pipe work and various items it will come in to contact with.

Naturally none of these are present in a natural river system that is not subjected to farming or industries.


HMA will remove a very high amount of metals and semi solid matter RO will remove most chemicals and items that create a hazarded for fish.

Each type of filter works in basically the same way a pre filter will remove the larger items like sand dirt ect next in a RO unit a carbon filter will remove the tastes and stable pollutants, along with chlorine which will damage the RO units membrane should it come in to contact with it. Finally in the RO unit a high quality filter working on the pressure principal will allow a small amount of water to pass through the membrane, this water will be around 30% of the total water passing over the membrane. This is why you get so called waste water from a RO unit, it is not waste as in it contains the extra “Gunk” the unit has removed it is just water that cant pass through the membrane.

You will hear RO Units described as 3/ 4 / 5 or 6 stage units this is the amount of filter stages that are used. A 3 stage is a stranded type some time people use a 4 stage unit the 4th stage is normally a resin exchange unit to give the water a final “polish.”

The HMA unit works differently in that it used a very highly treated second stage to remove the final metals ECT, in fact HMA filters are some time called “Heavy Metal Axe “ filters. You will also hear them called CBR filters.

The HMA filter will not alter the TDS (totally dissolved solids) or the PH.

I use a very fine needle valve to mix the two. For myself I control the amount of HMA I add thus the water will always start os pure RO.

I can increase the amount of HMA to give me a higher TDS and use this to stimulate spawning or aid other behaviour I wish to bring on.

Words of warning

RO is totally unstable due to having no carbon hardness so it will follow the path of least resistance that is to say it will buffer or drop depending on its environment, not what you want in a fish tank.

The mixing of “ mineralised salts” is usually the way most fish keepers control this instability.

I use a very small amount of mineralised salts as I am adding HMA water.

To fully understand how RO water can be used you must first understand the way water supports life and the general behaviour of water.

I spent around 6 years getting it right and still have a few areas I don’t fully understand.


Should you ever want to visit Bristol you are more than welcome to pop in and see how I do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis
 

macvsog23

Pleco Profiles Team - RIP FRIEND
May 1, 2009
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Well ego totaly stuffed and very fat

Again thanks but do check out my points some are just what work for me .

As I said any one who wants to visit is welcome.
 

Irene0100

UK Support Team
May 14, 2009
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Norfolk, UK
be careful of Ro if you have a water meter. also buy an RO filter which is designed to be switched on and off, with suitable valves rather than one which just runs all the time.

I use mainly half treated tap and half RO - that way the RO is only diluting the tap water as mine is poor hard water full of additives and goodness knows what.

When I am conditioning Hypans I use more RO but add small amonts of re-mineralising and buffer.

to make the change, as you asked, just gradually add a little more each w/c.
 
I

intrepidmax

Guest
mac let me move houses and have my baby and finish my 7 week course and I will be round yours to have a look. your not that far and I will probably pass through yeovil to pick up something on the way. plus I will bring a couple of slate caves for you to say thanks.
 

macvsog23

Pleco Profiles Team - RIP FRIEND
May 1, 2009
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Just a few points I have missed.

Most R O units are rated in US gallons per hour.

They are also rated at I believe 75 degrees Fahrenheit
Thus during winter when the water is a lot colder they will produce a much lower flow. I have seen 50 GPD units produce under 10 GPD in winter.

When mixing RO and HMA adjust the mix over a 48-hour period, as the flow will change over night.

As mentioned RO units produce waste and when on a meter this can become a problem.

One way to cure this problem is to use the reject water, despite common misconception this water is purer than what comes out of the tap.

It is rejected due to the limits of the membranes ability to filter it. It contains none of the “Trapped” Gunk this is held in the membrane.

It has been through a pre filter and the carbon so mixing it with the RO is not a problem.

Rather than turn an R O Unit off a float switch is a good idea this can be used to turn off the unit once your holding container is full.
 
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intrepidmax

Guest
Mac a Q for you. the dump water that goes down my drain, I thought this was only good for watering the garden. but if I collect it ....its totally safe to mix?? I think it would brilliant to collect and use it in my tanks because im up for the old eco stuff. I do water changes with the pure R/O but I hate doing it...(as said its really unstable) I dont use buffers (cos they never seem to work) I sometimes put discus minerals back into the water now and then. and sometimes I mix a 50/50 tap/R/O. I have the strangest feeling Im doing something totally wrong here. can you set me straight please?.
 

scatz

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
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Devon, UK
do you mean the waste water from the RO?, if so, there would be no point in mixing the waste with the RO treated water as all you'll end up with is your tap water, minus a few impurities.
you'd be better off with a simple HMA filter which would get better results
 

macvsog23

Pleco Profiles Team - RIP FRIEND
May 1, 2009
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Hi

Quote "do you mean the waste water from the RO?, if so, there would be no point in mixing the waste with the RO treated water as all you'll end up with is your tap water, minus a few impurities.
you'd be better off with a simple HMA filter which would get better results "

It is not waste water it is rejected water and is minus quite a lot of impurities ie it has been through a 10/5 micron pre filter a Carbon filter so any items over 10 to 5 microns has been removed any clorine ect has been removed
RO Waste is just slightly less pure than HMA.

to call it waste is not right it is rejected water
rejected by the RO membrane.
due to the flow rate of the membrain being lower than the flow rate of the water it is not waste or in any way impure and is better than mixing tap water to your RO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis
 

Irene0100

UK Support Team
May 14, 2009
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I have a Franke triflow tap in my kitch which I use for drinking water.
sometimes I use this instead of normal tap water, i dont use it often as its quite slow so takes longer to fill a bucket!
I have no idea if it is as good as HMA, I doubt it, as cant find out what it filters and what it leaves!
http://www.franke.co.uk/page.aspx?SP=184
 
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macvsog23

Pleco Profiles Team - RIP FRIEND
May 1, 2009
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Just did a TDS and Kh test on the rejected R O water to see how far off tap water it is

TDS under 300 Kh 6

tap water over 370

Kh 12

that will finish any debate