Bloated L397 spawns

[axle]

Hi all, Im constantly having trouble with keeping my 397 fry alive. They spawn for me all the time but I only seem to manage a couple of survivors from each spawn. Its such a shame to watch them blow up like balloons and die. Im aware not to give them any meaty based protein rich foods and to date Ive tried everything. Zuch, cucumber, pumpkin, Sera Flora, broken up almond leaves, pieces of wood you name it. Ive raised them in frysavers and let them naturally leave the cave and no matter what I do it usually ends in a lot of bloated fry. :cry: I know it can be a common problem with 397s but can anyone help me out? Ive watched far too many of these little beauties keel over now!!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PlecoMM]

What are your water parameteres in the tank the fry re in and maintainance routines?

 

[axle]

I should add the fry get bloat as soon as they leave the cave, they still have part of there egg sacks and basically havnt even started feeding themselves.

Maintenance routine- wc and gravel cleans twice weekly as they are messy fish.
Temp 26 degrees
Ph 7.0
Nitrates 10ppm
Amm 0
Nitrite 0
Plenty of filtration and air.
Can do hardness testing if anyone thinks it may be an issue.

 

[The Tech Den]

Stop feeding them and stop gravel cleaning the tank.

They should loose the egg sack before they start eating and need the poo from the parents to help them.

Will fix ya issue.

 

[Bigjohnnofish]

lol at the above post!!!

i have had identical conditions and sometimes all fry bloat - sometimes all fry survive and sometimes you get numbers inbetween...

i find taking eggs and hand rearing them about day 3-4 after being laid gives best results... hatched in a fry saver and left to consume their eggsac then add some wood and feed some sera micron for a few days then sera flora flake crushed up small then introduce pumpkin and brocoli stalk...

i had 45/45 survive recently then had 8/35 survive... currently have approx 40 just hatched few days ago... see how they go...

also found few fry in the main tank that musta survived on their own....

 

[ccole]

Hi there,
I don't breed the plecos you are referring to but the abn's that breed every month I loose about 1/20 from the same thing you describe but then from another pair I won't loose any and that is from the same tank.
I try to stay away from pleco tabs and stick with fresh veg- I knowwhat is in it that way.
What pleco tabs do you use? Do you know the ingredients and know for sure it contains veg proteine not meat proteine?
Hope this helps
Cc

 

[Brengun]

Dunno, sometimes I think it might have something to do with the adults. When mine were breeding regularly I never had much trouble raising fry.
When they went on a breeding hiatus for a while (two different tanks at the same time) and then bred again I took about 60 fry from 3 spawns.
OK I wasnt really fantastically attentive with looking after the fry but 2/3'ds did die. The other third seems to take forever to grow.
I eventually wormed all the fry and all the adults with discus wormer so hopefully thats done the trick. The fry left all look good now with voracious appetites and I have a male with a log so full of wriggles he can hardly hold them all in there.

 

[The Tech Den]

Before you knock it perhaps you should try it and see if helps your fry success. You have nothing to loose at the moment.

http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=250
Have a read of the update. I have found similar too.

 

[axle]

Ok thanks guys, Just to clear things up a bit I actually dont feed the fish at all until there eggsacs are gone but having said that, the fish that leave the cave on there own can start to eat as they wish. But like I said I have tried allsorts of ways of raising the fry and the results are usually the same-Bloat.
I have counted over 40 fish in this spawn and around 20 are already looking like balloons.
I have actually been adding some sawdust to the frysaver today by sanding down some driftwood from the tank and collecting it. We will see how that goes.
I have read before that the parents poo can help with fry development and can assure you there is no shortage of it in the tank with them. Its not looking good so far with this spawn but I guess the better fish will hopefully survive.
I wonder if its worth me worm treating the tank?
Have you tried this Johnno?
Any more ideas would be great cheers.

 

[Irene0100]

the only suggestion i have is a lot more water changes with very good water, such as remineralised RO. keep the water really pristine.
I started to get a bit lazy and was using a mix of RO and conditioned tap water for a while in my zeb tank, (the tap water is too hard here to use without RO dilution).
then I got some deformed youngsters and did some research and it seems some chemicals found in some tap water can affect baby plec development. I have gone back to really good water now.

 

[Bigjohnnofish]

i have used rainwater exclusively years ago to see if it made any difference... but no differences could be concluded... anerobic bacteria buildup in the cave is a possible cause but i set up a powerhead pointing into the cave to increase circulation and still no differences were noted... i tried many different things but in the end i have just accepted that the species is prone to bloat from time to time... maybe a good thing as it has stopped the market being flooded and kept the fry price at a reasonable amount.. once fry become worthless best breeders will palm them off... contributing to the disappearance of the fish in the long run...

 

[axle]

Very true Johnno if all the fry survived there would be a lot of people with
100s for sale. We gotta think about the bigger picture for the species (in oz) like you say, and I like the way you put it. Cheers guys.

 

[The Tech Den]

Thanks for the inspiration Axle, going to get my L397 colony going again.

 

[axle]

That would be great, Id be keen on hearing about any success you have and mortality rates etc. I have around 7 left ATM and approx 40 dead.:cry:

 

[lealea]

I found good airaiton of the fry tank, minimal waste do not over feed, I used to only use cucumber and viformo but not alot better to do a small feed every day then build up algea and waste. remember the fry tanks need wood from a wiggler stage as well. lealea