L-204 flash or L104 Panaque Maccus?

[Speedforce]

Dear all.

I have had the pleasure of having my fish spawn for the first time.

However I am faced with a problem, I have L-204 Flash plecos and L-104's also Panaque Maccus in the breeding tank, as both species require similar conditions it seemed appropriate at that time.

I did not manage to see which species spawned because as you all know, to breed a Panaque species, you need tons of wood in the tank and more caves than there are fish...

Will post a few pictures of the fry and hope that we can identify what L- no: they belong to.

I am hoping it was the Flash plecos but I think it may have been the maccus, however the fry seem a bit large to be Maccus fry.

They are a cm head to tail and were born 1.5 weeks ago. I know this because i did a gravel vac 1.5 weeks ago and i did not see any fry, albeit they may have been behind a male in one of the caves already.

I did extensive research online and saw many pictures of both fry and to my horror they look almost identical.

I hope that someone with a trained eye can shed some light into it.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Reagrds

 

[bigbird]

wow way way way too small to tell you what this is. They are tiny, sorry jk :thumbup:

 

[Speedforce]

Yeah 1 cm freshly hatched... i am just curious to know if they are Flash or Maccus

In a couple of weeks if they are flash I should be able to tell.

By the way, has anyone got experience regarding gravel vac when there are tiny fry loose in the tank?

Shall I refrain from doing gravel vac until they are at least easily visible?

have been doing a 20% water change every 2 days.

Any help will be appreciated.

Many thanks

 

[rpp1973]

The fact you have fry is amazing congratulations and well done!. will be intresting to see how they progress and what they turn out to be.

was it in one of the caves you had off me ?
:clap:

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Congratulations, I think they are probably Panaque maccus fry. If you look a the fry pictures at PlanetCatfish the fry of Panqolus albivermis L204<http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=126> all the fry are dark with thin light bands.

The fry of Panaqulos maccus <http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=734> are very similar, but some show broader, pale bands.

shall I refrain from doing gravel vac until they are at least easily visible? I have been doing a 20% water change every 2 days.

I'd carry on changing the water, but avoid ding any gravel vacuuming.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Speedforce]

Thank you very much for your help darrel.

Will continue watter changes as scheduled.

I am a bit worried now though, i used to always have many fry on show at eny given time, especially during the night, now I can only find 2 on sight... I wonder if this is my parent instincts kicking in and

making me worry, or if they simply learnt to hide amongst all the woods in the tank.

I hope I am over reacting lol.

Thanks to all that helped and I will keep you informed of any developments.

Regrads

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

now I can only find 2 on sight... I wonder if this is my parent instincts kicking in and making me worry

Probably OK, but even though they are wood eaters, I'd make sure you have some other food for them all the time in the tank like algal wafers, courgette etc.

The wood they need to eat should be quite soft, they won't be able to get any nourishment from Mopani etc.

Have a look at this for L397, same approach would work for all small Panaque (Panaqolus spp.)<http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2073>

cheers Darrel

 

[Speedforce]

Thanks again Darrel

To my horror, today morning i learnt the reason why my babies are disappearing, as they are swimming around they got sucked in my 5000 litre/hour power head..... found many dead bodies stuck to it.. I am gutted but learnt my lesson, I know its better for them to be free in the tank but with that powerhead on, I reckon i must try and get any survivor and stick them in a fry saver, or I risk losing them all.

Its a sword of 2 edges... I need the powerhead to help induce spawning but after the spawn it becomes a liability... I think I will try and get the youngsters in a fry saver from now on.

I am gutted...


Thanks for all the help guys.

Regards

 

[YAL05T]

Mate, try fitting a piece of poret type foam over the intake. It will reduce the flow a little but will prevent the losses (or at least reduce them greatly).

 

[Speedforce]

Thank you for your quick reply..

I was gutted to see them dead stuck to it.. I wish I had known...

Will definitely go ahead and do that immediately when i get home.

Thanks again for your invaluable help.

Regards

 

[rpp1973]

Did any survive the filter? and was these spawnd in the wooden caves or something else. Good luck for future spawns

 

[Speedforce]

Hi!

Yes, they were born in the wooden caves, i dont have any other type, however there are 2 sizes of caves in the tank, one with an opening of 32mm and the other 22mm, have no idea wich one they used. They do seem more interested in the tightest ones though.

3 confirmed survivors, but more may be hiding in the wood.

Turned off the powerhead until i do my next water change, by then I will have decided if I want to go the route of fry saver. They are so tiny and the tank so large... I worry they may not get enough food, if i live them loose in the tank.

I also decided to move the 204's out of the breeding tank as now i am almost sure the fry are baby 104's

by removing the 5 aduld flash plecos I can go for longer without disturbing the macus or do gravel vac... win win situation i guess.

Will put the 204's back into my 5 footer.

I also have another 2 maccus that I bought a year back as babies that are just coming into in breeding condition so may put those together with the rest and have a specialized tank just for that species.

 

[Irene0100]

Well done for breeding, I agree put cover over power head intake or remove power head and just put internal filter like aqua ball to give water movement. I don't think you need such a strong current in there. The young can die just from effort of swimming in it.

 

[Speedforce]

Thanks for the advice Irene.

If and when I get another spawn, I will probably turn the powerhead off.

Got a few fluval internal filters i could add for a bit of current.

By the way the remaining 3 fry that survived the powerhead died.. the water tested ok which makes me wonder if they died because they might have nibled on their parents food.. I fed courgette every 2 days and JMC catfish pellets every other day... wondering what should I feed so the food is good for both, parent and fry...

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I hated losing all my babies and dont want it happening again...

Thank you all for all the support.

Regards

Joseph

 

[YAL05T]

No reason they should die from that diet, I'll have a read back over everything we have discussed and see if anything stands out as a possible cause.

Do you scrub the courgette?

 

[Speedforce]

Hi

Yes, I wash the courgettes thoroughly prior to adding to tank... another thing that comes to mind is I have never actually seen them eating, courgette or otherwise.

The tank is a jewel vision 180, 180 litres.. wondering if they had difficulty finding the food.

Or I may just have been unlucky and had a weak first spawn.

No idea... I have now moved the 204's out of the tank, to keep possible pollution to the very minimum...

All in all the main culprit was the powerhead... then there is the issue of me not actually ever being able to observe them eating.

Sorry to keep asking questions but I would like to treat my fish as well as I can and I want to learn from experienced people like yourselves.

Thanks and regards