L270 ill and 1 died help please

[antoncook]

hi all i hope you can help..

i have a breeding group of L270s in my 3ft tank..the water temp is 80deg and all other readings are good,air is a double air pump with plenty of bubbles.

i noticed three days ago that one of the last batch of babies was not hiding but in the middle of the tank floor looking rather sorry for himself (kinda lathatgic compared to all his bros of the same batch)...he didnt attempt to move even when i put the tank light on just sat there...what i did notice that his front two fins were kinda closed (not in fan position ..spread out)..and he was on his rear fins..in a kinda jacked up rear end way...i gently tried to perswade him to move,and he did so in a rather stiff robotic way...not atall fish like..if that makes sence....in the morning he was dead..

today i notice that one of his elder brothers a 2cm fish from a batch before was showing the same simptoms...so i put him in a breeding trap (the clear type) so i could see him in more detail....again hes lathargic...jacked up....BUT with kinda fur on several parts of his body....i doesnt look like white spot..(as i understand it to be grains of salt looking spread around the body)..its kinda whispy and pale white...like mould i would best discribe it..and just in certain places....i have not seen the fish flick or rub atall and at the moment all of them look in great health...does any one have any ideas??...

i really dont want to loose anymore..if i can help it...any advice would be brilliant...

anton

 

[bigbird]

Hello,

Can you take a photo....cheers jk

 

[antoncook]

hi jk...

heres 3 pix..first one is prob the best altho the fish is so small you cant see the actual 'whisps of mould'...

why would it sit like that? on its rear fins..

anton

added to the origional post...breathing looks fast aswell..

 

[Irene0100]

hmm does not look good.
have you done any changes to tank recently eg added dither fish, add plant, etc?
how often do you change the water and how much? do you use treated tap water?
can you post pic of tank?

in the meantime until sort out what has caused this you could add some melafix and pimafix, as a gentle all round med -its made of plant extracts like tea tree so its a safe med.

 

[antoncook]

TY irene

il get some today,i didnt know if the salt treatment would work??..

wather changes are about 25% weekly...with RO/tap water mix...tank has a clear bottom..i feed every 3 days at night and if theres any left i hoover it the morning after...it has bog wood that has always been in there from day 1...only thing ive added was a tiny bit of java moss..and java fern...and i mean probably not even an inch of moss and just 4 rooted leaves of fern..inhabitants are

4 adults, 4 second gen babies 2cm (1 that is ill) 4 third babies 1cm (1 that died) 7new babies with egg sacs, 1 bn plec 3 cm..and a 5 shrimp...

has two air stones (large) that supply loads of air.. about 9 caves and external filter..

im stummped to why now?..but il add meds as soon as i get in...i looked at little fellow to day and hes still looking not good...

anton

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I'd have to agree with Irene, picture would be useful. I'd also suspect it is a water issue. If you use tap water I'd be suspicious that the Water Board is doing some water main works and have added chloramine to your water supply. A water conditioner like Prime or Amquel would deal with that. I also think that Melafix or Pimafix is a good idea.

One thing to bear in mind is that anything added to the water will reduce its oxygen holding capacity, so even though

air is a double air pump with plenty of bubbles.

you may be short of oxygen and/or biological filtration capacity (particularly if it is a chloramine issue).

We have an article about "aeration and oxygenation", and it covers this area in a bit more detail. <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829>

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

"tank has a clear bottom" and "external filter"

Sounds unlikely it is a direct filtration issue, although I think bare bottoms are difficult to manage, and I would always prefer a thin layer of sand.

I'd probably up the water changes a bit, even though I have heavily planted tanks I change 10% a day, you probably don't need to change the water that frequently, but I'd aim for 100% water change every fortnight (so twice what you do now).

Nitrate could possibly also be an issue, we did some water testing yesterday (from a local stream) and the BOD and ammonia levels were of the scale, probably as a result of fertiliser/slurry spreading. As the farmers start spreading nitrate on the fields in the spring, nitrate levels in tap water will rise if it comes from surface reservoirs or shallow aquifers, the EU limit is now 50ppm, but in the past in intensive arable or areas with a lot of Dairy farming it could easily go to 70ppm ish.

cheers Darrel

 

[antoncook]

hi darrel..ty m8

sad news plec in piccy passed away this afternoon....im gutted....

all duley noted..il now gunna read the article....i may try a layer of sand..

silly question but why would u clear bottom prove a problem if i always clear it?...also..since ive had the plecs its always had a clear bottom...and never had a problem...till this week.......

AHHHH also the water board are putting in water meters in this area!!!!! hmmmm a good possibility it may be that considering the history of the tank i guess....il investigate and post here....

many thanks to all for your help..

anton

 

[antoncook]

update....treated with milafix and primafix this afternoon..

another plec has gone down with the same symptoms....one of the adults..on closer inspection..it has a definate raised (arched) back and lover fins (not dorsal or tail) look stiff..it is not swimming properly atall...again with a slight grey hew on parts of it body..im getting more and more depressed about this...

is it worth..... doin a waterchange with water from another tank???....i have two 350l corner tanks...use water from them?...after treatment with medsis complete...or am i being inpatient????? or will that just confuse things more...i guess i really need to find the cause...strange as it could be chlorene...but i dont just use tap water...i use RO..and only do small changes????????

ant

 

[bigbird]

Hi, just reading up on everything and sorry for your loss and frustration that you are unable to find the cause. Just out of curiousity 2 things 1. I am under the impression that even a RO unit needs to be cleaner or reverse flushed.....if so when did you do this last as maybe you have a buildup of matterial in there. 2. Have you maybe considered doing a water change with bottles water like those large 20liter ones they have in the office ?
I have used these before and then just added the seachem prime.
cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[antoncook]

hi jk ty for your reply..


i get my RO from my next door neighbour who has a marine tank,and he tests it all the time..i would have thought if hed had a problem he would know about it...hes had the RO unit for around 5 months now..i can only assume its still good..but couldnt swear it...good idea about the bottled water tho...i was thinking that i have to tanks here with good water in...i could do a 90% change.....but i think its best to see what meds do first...i could change the water..but not know what happend and why in the first place..very annoying..

anton

 

[L134PLECO]

Hi Anton

The same thing happened to my zebs about 2 months ago i lost three of them, i was using 50 ro and 50 tap water, so i think it could be the water board adding something to the water. I have been adding 100% ro to my tanks at the mo, but i dont know if this is any good for the fish, but they all seem fine.

Good luck mate.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
[quote]AHHHH also the water board are putting in water meters in this area!!!!! [/quote] I'm pretty sure this is it and it is a "chloramine in tap water issue" then. The Water company will be adding chloramine to deal with any organic matter that gets into the supply during the metering work.

I think you definitely need a water change with a non tap water supply. It would be best to carry on with these until they've finished work, and then keep using Prime for any new tap water.

It doesn't matter where the non-tap water for the water change is from, either from the other tanks, 100% RO (you can always re-mineralise it with "RO right" or similar) or rain water? I know some people have rain water horror stories, but I've always used it without any problems. An HMA filter might be an idea as well, Bob (Macvsog) uses them and they seem a good idea.

Another option is "bio-filtration" of your water, ideally before use. If you have healthy growing plants they will preferentially take up any ammonia, as well as mopping up any that appears from the break down of the chloramine. If you have room a container (old tank, large bucket, storage box, water butt etc) with with a light over it (PM if you are interested and I'll point you at some cheap light fittings that will do the job, you don't need an "aquarium light" ) and a good covering of Amazon Frog-bit would do. You then take all your water change water out of the plant tank.

I don't think the RO should be a problem, even if the unit isn't working properly, all it would mean would be that the water have more salts in it than normal, as the water will still be passing through the carbon etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[antoncook]

hi darrel

after realising about the water board doin thier works..and where they are doing it i decided to do a 95% water change the same night..and was awake till 4 am doin it..and checking on me babies...i took the water out of my two other tanks..and had no problems...infact the fish looked a hell of a lot better just 20 mins after they had the 'new ' water...so i recon it was defo some crap in the water..i had put a large ill looking and a new born in a hospital tank with the water as a test..the babie was infact goin grey when i decided to move....and it was the improvement in them two that made me do a complete change...and im glad i did....ALL fish look happy and have returned to their former pleccy self...so i m now well happy....im still looking even now a couple of days after the big WC...but less and less..lol..

I just wanted to let you guys n gals know what has happend and thank you all for your comments and help..

allt he best anton..

lloyd i sent u tex m8....ty

 

[bigbird]

Maybe members should check with their respective water boards when works are in their area. It seems that when they flush pipes or cleanthem that they certainly add some items to the water ? Saves the hassle like this one and other threads as well. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

in fact the fish looked a hell of a lot better just 20 mins after they had the 'new ' water..

Well done Anton, sorry for your losses, but at least you've got it sorted. It is a real problem, if you look back through the recent posts it has effected all sorts of people, and I can only see tap water quality issues getting worse for fish keepers. The new legislation is very tough on heavy metals, pesticides and bacterial contamination, meaning that in terms of drinking the water it is much better, but not necessarily for your fish.

cheers Darrel

 

[Brengun]

I just luv a happy ending.