Lowering PH options please

[-Pete-]

Hi all, and so it begins with the questions

I have read numerous threads on PP in this section with regards to water parameters, and have learned some amazing information, but then confused myself on my water parameters.

The fish I'm keeping so far and all at breeding size L333, L134, L397, ALbino LF and Pepps.
The need to get their water parameters right is paramount.

I have standard brown gravel as a substrate, but will do a jar test to see if it's a buffer, but I doubt it.
Wood in all tanks (but no grapevine yet Johnno as our LFS Aquotix will have it in later this week) .
A few Slate rocks in a few tanks.

My tap water parameters are:
KH - 6
GH - 6
PH - 8.0

My tank parameters are:
KH - 6
GH - 7
PH - 8.0

I'm considering buying a RO Unit but value and would appreciate your opinions first.

Thanks for reading

 

[dolmio]

hey mate, I`m planning to use rainwater the PH is lower in rainwater also a buffer to maintain your PH, the buffer may affect your KH and GH so you will have to check what buffer is best to use.

RO Units take out not only the bad stuff in the water but the goodness as well if I remember correctly.

 

[dolmio]

seachem Acid Buffer might be a option but remember its best to premix your water before adding it to the tank
Your catty`s will be best at a PH off 7.0, if its just your PH you want to lower to 7.0 you can just use Seachem Liquid Neutral Regulator.
others might say different but that's my opinion!

cheers Damo

 

[-Pete-]

Thanks for your reply mate.

I'm thinking the RO Unit because I'd be able to use some of my tap water mixed with the RO water to add the necessary elements. But I need to know

Rainwater is my other option, but I would have to install a rainwater tank.
To have enough rainwater to get through the summer months probably looking at a 1500L tank or bigger.
Then there's more questions, with rainwater, would it be necessary to have ALL water in the rainwater tank airated continuously?
I live very close to Perth Airport. Polutants in the rainwater?

 

[beencees]

As stated using RO water will remove all minerals from the water and as such many of them would need to be replaced or as you said you can mix it with tap water.
There are many ways to lower your pH. Personally i am not a fan of adding chemicals to my water if it can be avoided. I have a few reasons for this, one of which is often they raise the TDS which frankly i find much more important than pH levels. As stated rain water can help but just like tap water needs to be treated with Prime or similar to remove the unwanted elements.
There are many blackwater extracts that also lower pH and supposedly can help trigger spawning but my personal choice and the oldest trick in the book is to use peat moss.
The majority of L's are usually recommended to be kept in pH of 6.5, often lower. This may be true but i know people breeding these fish in water that is 7.4 so it's not the be all and end all. Having said that 8.0 is way too high.

 

[bigbird]

try almond leaves or peat as well. I have an old 5fter tank that I fill up and have in it sunken driftwood and leaves etc. I then use this once a week for my water changes. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[dolmio]

its best to have air running through the rain water tank but if you don't want to u can always have a smaller 200+ litre tub with a air stone to store water from the rainwater tank for the fish tanks.

 

[dolmio]

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/mobile/content.php?sid=5259 this is from the forum about RO units.

 

[-Pete-]

Thanks for all the replies.

After alot of discussions with LFS's and long time breeders on PCS, I've decided to go with the RO unit.

Will keep you posted on progress........or problems :whistle:

Thanks again
Pete

 

[Brengun]

Your GH isnt too bad and I have seen gH readings right up to 16 and plecos still breed.
That kH is wonderfully stable at 6 but I think unnecessarily high. Two to four is a better level.
Added to the ph of 8 I am thinking your town water may have high concentrations of salt to taste.

Same water perameters as the place I want to move to one of these days and I do have a RO unit there at the ready but with 25 medium sized tanks I don't think I will be able to make enough RO water to dilute that many tanks.

Difficult to do if you are renting though so RO is a good plan for you.

Some woods will pull ph down faster than others and those tend to be the more chunky sorts rather than the skinny vine ones.

You could also consider putting some peat balls in your canister. I think seachem or someone has them.

 

[Nat's Fish]

I used to use eheim torf peat pellets & they were great even if they made the water look a bit yuck for a while

 

[-Pete-]

Thanks for your replies

I bought this RO unit http://www.psifilters.com.au/laundry-wall-mount-reverse-osmosis-systems/74-psi-020b-lw-3-stage-reverse-osmosis-system---low-waste-1-to-1.html.
Didn't buy from this site though, I bought it from a LFS. They need our support.

It doesn't remove all the goodness from the water and find the PH is now 6.4 RO'd, opposed to the 8.0 tapwater. So a huge plus there.
I'm adding this water slowly to my tanks to bring down the pH gradually, and it's working, as the KH is also coming down nicely. :clap:

I plan on getting the PH from 8.0 - 7.5, then, buffer the RO'd water to 7.0 with my tapwater where normal water changes will bring all tanks down to 7 eventually.
Hopefully, after buffering the GH / KH will be around the 3ish.

All my L fish are in species tanks: IE
L134 x 4 - 150l tank
L333 x 5 - 200l tank
L397 x 2 - 150l tank
Albino LF x 6 - 150l tank
Pepps x 7 - 150l tank

The RO unit makes 300l per day so I'm thinking every second day I'll do small water changes until the target PH of 7.5 is reached.

I added heaps of wood to most tanks where the tannins made the water a black tea colour, but only dropped the PH from 8.0 to 7.9 :cry:
Grapevine was my next choice but really needed a long term solution.

Thanks again
Pete

 

[Brengun]

Sounds great. You will be popping out L fry in no time.

 

[-Pete-]

Haha yes Brenda, that'd be nice, but if they don't breed for me that's ok as well. I'm just happy trying to make them happy.

Here's a pic of the unit and storage method.
Blue line = tapwater In
Black line = waste water
White line = RO'd water


The wheelie bin is 240l from Bunnings for $80 or so.
I'll eventually add a pump to transfer water to the tanks, but by bucket is ok for now.
I've added a couple of airstones to circulate the water until usage.
The lid is always closed to stop any nasties dropping in.

 

[Brengun]

Keep an eye on the surface of the water in the bin. If its not food grade plastic you might see in time oils appearing as they leech out of the plastic.

Food grade hose is a good idea for the pump so you dont in time cop oils coming from it either.

If you happen to have one laying around the higher powered otto internal filter nozzle fits a normal size hose perfectly.

 

[-Pete-]

Thanks for those tips Brenda, I'll keep an eye out for any leaching.

Getting somewhere now
After adding RO'd water slowly, all tanks are now on GH-3 KH-3 PH-7.5, and the fish are more active :woohoo:

Water I have prepared to use by mixing 70% RO and 30% tapwater, the parameters are KH-2 GH-2.5 PH-7.4.

Would this water be ok to use, or should I be upping the KH & GH levels a bit?

tia.

 

[Brengun]

I think you are pretty clever just setting up the RO system lol. I bought one and still havent figured out where I am going to set it up or how.

 

[-Pete-]

Far from clever Brenda, lol, but thanks anyhow
I'd love to help if I can when the time comes for you to set up your RO system.

The fish have been in a high ph, so I'll keep my parameters here for a month or two to let the fish adjust, KH -2 GH - 2.5 and PH 7.4.

Eventually I'll add Indian Almond leaves & peat to my stored water and buffer the ph down to 7.0...hopefully <3

Which brings up another question.
If I buffer the water down with peat and wood, will that also bring down the GH & KH? Guess I'll have to wait and test for it.

It just started raining here so I'm off to do some water changes :yes:

 

[Brengun]

I keep a small piece of dead coral or a little bag of shell grit up the back to hold that kh and stop ph crashing. You can get blocks to set to the ph you want, slow release things. Usually find them in turtle shop areas if you cant find them in the fish section.

Add in: I was worried my fish werent getting enough calcium and dropped cuttlefish bones, one in each tank or a piece of one. Many of the plecs actually ate it leaving only the hard bony bit lol. I thought the calcium in the bone would slowly leech into the water.