Mayday! I need Help please!

[Whitey126]

Hi All I'm new here,

Hopefully someone can help this is the first forum I've come to regarding this,
I had 2 golden nuggets one died a few month back blamed it on my nephew putting a incent stick in the water the other one seemed fine for a few month but now it looks like it losing its skin the other fish started to attack it so I've put him in a trap but he not moved since. He almost looks dead but im unsure whats wrong with him or how to treat him. The pic is below

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=6342694d4ddc44e7&resid=6342694D4DDC44E7!1629&parid=root

Thanks for any help, I've had plec before but never had this issue with them, I've hoping to find out whats caused it and how I can prevent it from happening again!:cry:

 

[AusPleco]

Could it be a fungal issue?

edit: Welcome to plecoplanet btw

 

[Whitey126]

Not sure, I've put some PimaFix in, and see if it helps, just cleaned my filters incase it was a filtration issue too as I know he spends most of it day on them, rest of my fish seem fine, anything else that could cause it?

and Thanks

 

[AusPleco]

Do you have a photo of your tank and readings from test kit?

 

[Whitey126]

They are as follows,

PH 6.0
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0.50
Nirate about 2.5

Just though what it could be looking at these they in a smaller tank since some work men broke my other tank doing work in the house, and I've not re-added the bogwood back to the tank. They should be all going in the bigger tank in a month or 2 once I get my 3D background for it but going to be setting it up and make sure its running ok before I start the transplant with the fish!

 

[jessonthenet]

The box it is in looks very dirty to start with. Is that a slime coat, too much caused by stress and are you sure that all that dirt in that box isn't getting stuck to it.

Could be fungus but illness and disease is usually brought on by bad water conditions causing stress then poor immune system which then allows the diseases and bad stuff in.

Excessive slime coats are a protection by the plecs as far as I know. They won't like any ammonia or nitrite so your water is not good.

Do a water change and get rid of that dirt out your tank.

 

[Whitey126]

Just started to do a 25% water change, he has a slime coat I've noticed, but think he acctually passed away now, noticed another fish looks the same so I'll continue with the water change, and hope for the best it sorts out! Thinking it was maybe the filter on the temp... tank not working great since I've cleaned it looks like the water is clearing up a little. never had problems like this in my other tank eveything was spot on all the time! but hopefully it in prove once the new one is setup!

Thanks guys for your help!

 

[jessonthenet]

Add extra aeration and raise the filter outlet slightly to up oxygen getting pushed into the water. Keep an eye on ph and other levels. I wouldn't stick any more fish in breeding boxes as poor water conditions will be concentrated and oxygen levels even lower. If you do place fish in the boxes then add air through an air pump.

When you cleaned the tank did you disturb and release a lot of dirt at once? If so this could clog filters. Also the risk of anaerobic bacteria being disturbed and releasing large amounts of sulphuric gas and large amounts of co2 as a bi - product. If too much id disturbed can drop your ph quickly, poison your fish and the clogged filter can kill aerobic bacteria and ammonia rockets quickly.

Ammonia and nitrite spikes cause stress and disease and high nitrite suffocates the fish as the cannot absorb oxygen and slowly die.

Sorry to hear about your gold nugget, I lost one due to refusal to eat so they are a tricky plec anyway.

 

[Whitey126]

I've got 3 large air stones in the tank atm set to medium, I've took out the live rock as well as only had that in to balance the bogwood, also after taking the water out used mineral water to fill it back up as I understand it better for them. Going keep an eye on the levels and hopefully they correct themselves now! Only got to go a month and they all have a new home! Think it could be a slight be of overcrowding! That might be causing it but this was the biggest tank on short notice I could get my hands on!

 

[jessonthenet]

good to have lots of aeration especially in a small tank with low surface area and to help bacteria.

If it isn't inhalers it is incense sticks! Don't let little kids near tanks, I am assuming it is a little kid?

Think about running some carbon to get rid of some chemicals or seachem prime or both plus water changes. Fish can recover to some extent but chemical poisoning I don't think unless you act quickly.

Same as air fresheners etc

Over crowding will have a big effect, if you have a big enough filter with plenty of media(ceramic rings) could even put some media on bottom of tank, see some do that, I don't. Providing the output on the filter isn't too strong and has your fish swimming against a torrent that will help.

 

[Whitey126]

Yer 1 year old just lernt to walk though it was good idea to put a insence stick in the small hole of the top of the tank! Did a full water change but ended up losing some of the fish straight away, first golden nugget died with in a few days, the 2nd one was fine for a couple of months after it just since I've put him in this tank after the other got smashed he not been the same, last few days though he seemed ok swimming around quite actively, but the last 2 days he just stayed in one area, its when I knew there was something wrong then noticed the skin thing on him today, so put him in the breading tank, but he didnt last long in there! I had ceramic rings and carbon rings in my old tank just nothing in here didnt have time to set it up quick it was get the fish out and in this ASAP as the water was leaking out the bottom of the other tank fast and the crack was speading so didnt have time to set it up fully! I've got a 2 new 1250 aqua one filters so they should provide a small current for the fish!

 

[Brengun]

You have a mini cycle happening and nitrite burns fish. Its nasty as.
Do waterchanges even up to twice a day and add Seachem prime liquid or stability or some sort of water conditioner daily until its stable with zero ammonia, zero nitrites and 5 to 10 in nitrates.

That pH looks a bit low too. Add for that sized tank say 1/4 teaspoon of bi-carb soda. It should be just enough to pull it up to about 6.8 or so. Doesn't have to be spot on and give or take .2 is ok too.

I don't particularly like my pH's to be in the yellow area of the api test kit since you don't know exactly how much lower than 6 it is. I had a tank ph crash once. I got a digital reading on it. It was 4.2!!!

 

[zeebo]

hi Whitey,
sorry to hear you lost some of your fishes. It is difficult . The above members gave good advice , esp when putting a fish in a breeding box, there is not much oxygen getting in there, so an air stone is necessary . Hope the others make it... good idea to follow the members advice with Prime and wc's till the tank is settled. The insense could have killed off some of your biomedia or the tank was not fully cycled , either way , you have water issues and the fish will continue to stress in water with amonia and nitrItes, but Prime and wc's will help immensely. Good luck and keep us informed.

Georgie

 

[Whitey126]

I've added 1/4 teaspoon of bi-carb soda & prime has been orded off ebay should have it by wed! Just got some more bottled water and did a 50% WC as, and increased the airflow on the tank looks like bubble city now!

 

[jessonthenet]

Where did you hear about using mineral water as good? Do you use just mineral water and do you use the same brand each time?

What i s the tap water like from the tap?

Bi carb should add buffering as advised so not just raising ph but also stopping ph swings. So not sure you need mineral water.

Do you really need mineral water if keeping plecs since you don't have a malawi setup and amazonian water has little minerals and ph naturally low. I don't see the problem with ph 6.0 as long as there is some buffering and ph is kept an eye on.

Raising ph with bi carb would temporarily raise ph until water changes remove bi carb and help bacteria multiply a little quicker. I wouldn't keep it higher though.

As far as I am aware it can get to ph 4 in the wild easily so not dangerous, it would be the ph swings that are dangerous.

Ammonia is more toxic at higher ph, isn't it? Although looking at charts that doesn't apply until ph 8.0 or so, so forget that. Wont mineral water be just adding unnecessary TDS? Depending on brand.

 

[bigbird]

sorry for your loss. Looks like your tank is going in overload. One other thing, if you are using incence in the house, then your airpump will also transfer this to the water in the bubbles, Be wary of that. I agree with the others, you had a mini cycle and I think you have way too many fish. Water changes and the twin fixes should help, but be wary of stirring up all the old muck. Look at the filter and if it is clogged and as others have stated use an air stone but you do that. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[Whitey126]

I've always Used mineral water Think I read it somewhere when doing my first setup and asked one of the local pet stores and said it a good idea, to help buffer the water, tap water find but it’s hard water where I live so we tend to need more conditioner on the tank to bring it to a normal level.

I agree it is very over loaded the tank they were all in was 3 times as big as the one there in ATM but I hat to swap a smaller full setup to get this one and I just basically shot my big tank into this one, didn’t have a lot of time to do anything the tank was leaking water due to a crack in the base! As Fast as I put water in it was back out to the point where the wooden frame started to warp! But for another month or so this will have to do till they go into the big tank and then they have more room than ever before!

I've cleaned all my filter two times today so hopefully it should all be ok now tank looks a bit more healty at least atm I put some Prime in next week once it arives and get some more water and do another change, and follow it with a few more tests. Used a gravel cleaner too to pick up some of the stuff from the bottom basicly I hovered the bottom of my tank not done it since I stuck them in normally do it ever 2 weeks.

Hopefully eveything should start picking up! Just rather gutten I dont have a plec atm my nuggets cost me £50 for the two and took me two weeks to get them from my local store! So not sure what to do now for my next plec! Just hoping I can get another nugget or L200 love the hole black and yellow

 

[AusPleco]

Got very good responses from members and alot of advice and think you just joined yesterday .

Is always a tragedy to lose fish but the positive is you have learnt something form it so your new plecs in future will benefit immensely. Is always good to have prime on hand when i first started breeding albino bristlenose i didnt find a deaden for like 3 days and my ammonia was through the roof. took alot of prime and water changes but fortunately they pulled through.


I hope the rest of your fish recover fully

 

[jessonthenet]

don't over clean the filter. do you clean it out in old aquarium water when you do?

nuggets are easy to get hold of just not always at a huge size and l200 are pretty easy to get too but a lot are sold small.

last time i saw a large nugget was 40 quid and small was 18 quid. Have had both of these and both lovely(l200 and l018) nugget didnt eat though but would definitely have another one. Nuggets are one of the most pretty looking. I think I prefer the one with the very small spots rather than the l018.

If your water is already hard then you don't need bi carb or mineral water just water changes to bring up the ph.

What exactly is the ph and do you know the hardness of the tap water ?

 

[Whitey126]

Big thanks to everyone that shared Advice

I might have to have a pop up and take a look I don’t have much choice here, and only a few miles away so might be worth a look at some point!

Not sure what the PH is on the Tap, been a while since I've tested it