Not only do fish feel pain, it changes their behavior

[Doodles]

http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0506-hance_fishpain.html
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif,arial]mongabay.com
May 06, 2009[/FONT]

Just months after a study made a splash in the media that proved crabs experience pain, a new study of goldfish shows that not only do these fish also feel pain, but it changes their future behavior. Published in Applied Animal Behaviour Science the study tested goldfish by slowly raising the temperature in their tank. In the warming tank, researchers administered one group of fish morphine and the other saline.

"There has been an effort by some to argue that a fish's response to a noxious stimuli is merely a reflexive action, but that it didn't really feel pain," Joseph Garner of Purdue said, one of the paper’s authors. "We wanted to see if fish responded to potentially painful stimuli in a reflexive way or a more clever way."

While the researchers believed that the fish given morphine would take longer to react to higher temperature—due to the drug’s pain-killing capacity—they found that both groups started wiggling with discomfort at the same time. At first, they thought this was proof that fish do not feel pain as discomfort like humans do, but rather only reflexively react to noxious stimuli. However, later when the temperature was returned to normal, the two fish groups showed contrasting behavior.

"The fish given the morphine acted like they always had: swimming and being fish," Garner said. "The fish that had gotten saline - even though they responded the same in the test - later acted different, though. They acted with defensive behaviors, indicating wariness, or fear and anxiety."

According to the researchers it is likely that the morphine blocked the experience of pain in the fish, but not their reflexive responses to the hotter water. They hypothesize that the fish were still able to detect the troubling stimulus without actually experiencing pain.

"If you think back to when you have had a headache and taken a painkiller, the pain may go away, but you can still feel the presence or discomfort of the headache," Garner explains.

In contrast the group administered with just saline not only felt pain, but that painful experience later changed their behavior, causing them to display extreme anxiety.

"The goldfish that did not get morphine experienced this painful, stressful event. Then two hours later, they turned that pain into fear like we do," Garner said. "To me, it sounds an awful lot like how we experience pain."

 

[Irene0100]

interesting, I have no scientific evidence that they feel pain but instinctively feel they do. thats why I dont understand how people fish for fun (no problem if they fish for food, that is more natural, but to catch fish with a hook, then throw it back, seems a strange sport to me!).

 

[Tony_s]

I have also read scientists that have published findings that some fish don't feel pain,they lack a part of the brain that can sense and feel pain.i wish i could remember which Magazines i read this at.

I must say i fish and live in a state where fishing and hunting is big business,Wisconsin sells the second most fishing licenses in the country.Florida is # 1 in selling fishing permits.

I must also say when i catch something,it's handled with the upmost care,best landing nets money can buy,i also cut hooks rather then unhooking the fish with pliers,this way the fish can be released faster.I might spend some extra money on more hooks,but to me releasing that fish alive is worth it.I do keep some to eat also,but when people catch and keep to eat those fish,they're not wasted.

Edit:High water temps means less oxygen,were these fish suffocating????

That's the 1 big question we as humans might never really know,because a fish doesn't really make a noise as other animals and people do to express pain.

 

[Doodles]

yep there does seem to be conflicting test results, tbh though i take the approach that its certainly possible and would do the same sort of things as you, just in case.

That's the 1 big question we as humans might never really know,because a fish doesn't really make a noise as other animals and people do to express pain.

which is unfortunate.


What is interesting behaviour, and I know its more survival than anything is when a really sick fish who maybe laying on the bottom of tank will try and act normally if it sees you looking at it.

 

[Tony_s]

This reminds me of something that happened in my fantail tank.As you have seen,goldfish are notorious at picking up gravel and spitting.Well about 3 weeks ago,i look in the tank and one of my fantails is swimming in circles,i look closer and the fish has a piece of gravel in it's mouth and can't spit it out,he's choking.So i net the guy and with a toothpick dislodge the piece of gravel from it's mouth,the guy was stunned for a second,swam to the bottom and just layed there for a minute,then went right back to picking up gravel like the rest of the fish.

Fish can ID who you are,they go nuts when they know it's you and feeding time.They don't always act the same to other people,i have observed this much.

As for this test,i think if i held your head under water for 30 seconds you would be scared of me too.

 

[Bubbles]

This reminds me of something that happened in my fantail tank.As you have seen,goldfish are notorious at picking up gravel and spitting.Well about 3 weeks ago,i look in the tank and one of my fantails is swimming in circles,i look closer and the fish has a piece of gravel in it's mouth and can't spit it out,he's choking.So i net the guy and with a toothpick dislodge the piece of gravel from it's mouth,the guy was stunned for a second,swam to the bottom and just layed there for a minute,then went right back to picking up gravel like the rest of the fish.

Fish can ID who you are,they go nuts when they know it's you and feeding time.They don't always act the same to other people,i have observed this much.

As for this test,i think if i held your head under water for 30 seconds you would be scared of me too.

Well done you for doing that :clap: i must admit i agree that fish do have a recognition of some sort, myself i am the one who does the water changes and feeding and i am always watching my fish. Tonight as my common BN was feeding my daughter accidently touched the glass and he scooted back into his cave, and i have noticed this behaviour even when my hubby goes over to watch him whilst he is eating, anyway a moment later he was back munching again so i went and gently stroked the glass near where he was eating, he could see me yet he didnt move.

I do believe that all living creatures have a capacity to feel pain, though i to have no scientific proof.

This is very interesting though saddening as our beloved fish cannot vocalise any pain or discomfort. Though my odessa barbs change colour when stressed or if something is not right with the water, so i suppose its a visual reaction with them rather than vocal ( i hope that makes sense )

 

[Doodles]

This reminds me of something that happened in my fantail tank.As you have seen,goldfish are notorious at picking up gravel and spitting.Well about 3 weeks ago,i look in the tank and one of my fantails is swimming in circles,i look closer and the fish has a piece of gravel in it's mouth and can't spit it out,he's choking.So i net the guy and with a toothpick dislodge the piece of gravel from it's mouth,the guy was stunned for a second,swam to the bottom and just layed there for a minute,then went right back to picking up gravel like the rest of the fish.

Fish can ID who you are,they go nuts when they know it's you and feeding time.They don't always act the same to other people,i have observed this much.

As for this test,i think if i held your head under water for 30 seconds you would be scared of me too.

Lucky you saw him when you did:yes:

They have a sense of time too, i have the lights off in big tank for two hours in the afternoon and around 10 minutes before the lights go out, most of the plecs come out and start grazing/cleaning and then carry on for the two hours lol, plus they all line up just before the lights go out at night ready for dinner.

Well done you for doing that :clap: i must admit i agree that fish do have a recognition of some sort, myself i am the one who does the water changes and feeding and i am always watching my fish. Tonight as my common BN was feeding my daughter accidently touched the glass and he scooted back into his cave, and i have noticed this behaviour even when my hubby goes over to watch him whilst he is eating, anyway a moment later he was back munching again so i went and gently stroked the glass near where he was eating, he could see me yet he didnt move.

I do believe that all living creatures have a capacity to feel pain, though i to have no scientific proof.

This is very interesting though saddening as our beloved fish cannot vocalise any pain or discomfort. Though my odessa barbs change colour when stressed or if something is not right with the water, so i suppose its a visual reaction with them rather than vocal ( i hope that makes sense )

Tis interesting, its good that there are people out there that are trying to find out these things.