The Pleco caves from bone

[AleGer]

I hope this thread will be associated with cooking and not with some cruel action

For spawning small Hypancistrus species I use bone caves.
Here I want to show how I make such caves from cow bones.
Such cave could be done from any tubular bone, but the best of all for spawning I think is back cnemis (Not sure with translation).
First of all the bone should be bought. I usually buy such bones at the meat market. It usually quite cheap.
Then you should cut of the unneeded parts of the bone.

It could be done as before boiling the bones as after. I advice to do it before. The

The boiling process:

The bones should be boiled to long, because they won't work for long time. I advice simply to make the water boiling and tun off. It will be more difficult to remove parts of meat, but in this case the bone will be better quality.

Cutting of the unneeded part after boiling:

The bone cleared of unneeded parts:

Then clear the internal meat bone web like structure and meat parts with a knife.

After that the bones should be cleared from rest of meat totally. I put the bone to the tank with common ancistrus (the best of all if fry). The will make the bones clear fast. I think in a week the bones could be used as a caves. But be careful with water conditions in the tank where the uncleared bones placed. I change water more often as usual in such tanks.

And the final stage: make the cave from bone.
I usually use a piece of foam rubber (not sure with translation) or a piece of sponge.

And in the result:

Hypancistrus sp. L174 fry

Hypancistrus sp. L411 eggs.

Hypancistrus zebra Male with fry.

etc.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Very ingenious, bone is calcium phosphate ("hydroxyapatite crystals"), and it will dissolve, raising the dGH over time. I think it a leg bone, but any of the long "marrow" bones would be hollow.

cheers Darrel

 

[AleGer]

Very ingenious, bone is calcium phosphate ("hydroxyapatite crystals"), and it will dissolve, raising the dGH over time

I know that. I also thought about it...
But in fact the calsium from the bone dissolves so slovly that the raising of the dGH could be ignored.
dGH increases faster simply due to tank water evaporation.

And water changes always put the dGH level back.

 

[AleGer]

I think it a leg bone

Yes back shinbone or tibia. I hope this translation is better.

 

[zeebo]

pretty cool AleGer, I would have never thought to use bone , very nice pic with the fry inside ! Thanks for sharing

Georgie

 

[Irene0100]

brilliant idea!!! I will have a word with my butcher and order some!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I know that. I also thought about it... But in fact the calcium from the bone dissolves so slowly that the raising of the dGH could be ignored. dGH increases faster simply due to tank water evaporation.

I think you may be right and they certainly seem to be working. The hydroxyapatite is pretty hard, I think it is about the same solubility as calcite (from hard limestones), and it wouldn't raise dKH like limestone would. Its solubility is quite complicated and how it resists acids is dependent upon how much fluoride it contains - more fluoride = more resistant.

cheers Darrel

 

[Jimmy]

:goodpost: There a real home from bone :lol::lol::lol:

 

[bigbird]

wow brilliant. good stuff. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[macvsog23]

Shades of Dennis Nilson

 

[SilverDub]

Don't know who Dennis Nilson (Will Wiki him now)

At first I thought the title of thread sounded crazy, but blimey what results. I imagine the Hyp's must graze on the bone aswell. As hobbyists we really know very little about our fishes true requirements and maybe this replaces key minerals from there diet.

Brilliant thread.

 

[beencees]

cool

Great idea AleGer. I'm gonna have to try that, i like to provide my guys with different options and it certainly seems to be working for you.
I wonder how they would go if they were left to cure in the sun for awhile after cleaning?
Thanks for the post.

 

[macvsog23]

Sorry folks got the name wrong Dennis Nilsen

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Nilsen"]Dennis Nilsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[pepper28]

brilliant idea!!! I will have a word with my butcher and order some!

Goood stuff eh, I might check with my butcher too,I've got terracotta, plastic tubes,dritwood and now the bone(might work) if it makes them cozy although the 8 peppermints are all male I've got three trios of albino long fins
cheers pepper28.

 

[xingu]

Informative thread, thanks.

Other than possibly slightly lower costs, are there any actually advantages to these caves rather than say clay ones?

 

[AleGer]

Thanks guys for your replies.

i like to provide my guys with different options

I've got terracotta, plastic tubes,dritwood

I also like to provide different kind of caves.

I use terracotta, driftwood, stone (but done badly, I need to try better), clay and bone caves.

From my experience, the bone caves works with small Hypancistrus species such as:
Hypancistrus sp. L174
Hypancistrus zebra
Hypancistrus sp. L287
Hypancistrus sp. L340
Hypancistrus sp. L411
etc.

I think it should work with Hypancistrus sp. L201, but my L201 always spawn only in terracotta caves.

For Ancistrus or Panaque the bone caves seems not to work. My Ancistrus spawn best of all in driftwood caves, and Panaque (Panaqolus) spawn best of all in clay caves (it is strange, because I thought driftwood should work better for them, but not)

 

[AleGer]

Also I would like to divide the influence at the water parameters in to two periods (parts):
1. When the bone still contains some rests of meat, fat and etc.
2. When there is almost no rest of meat, fat, etc. Mostly salt of calcium.

At the first period, it is really dangerous to make a havoc with water, pH could be increased, also increase the lever of ammonia, then nitrites and so on.
That's why I wrote

I put the bone to the tank with common ancistrus (the best of all if fry). The will make the bones clear fast. I think in a week the bones could be used as a caves. But be careful with water conditions in the tank where the uncleared bones placed. I change water more often as usual in such tanks.

Of course it could take more then a week the bones to be cleared. It depends on the quantity of the bones, quantity of the fish or snails that will eat the rest of flesh.
So on this stage it is quite important to control water quality.

The second period begans when the bone is cleared. Yes it still present some organic compounds. And also the dissolving of calcium will increase dGH. But all these will influence the water parameters so slovly that could be ignored. dGH increases faster simply due to tank water evaporation.


And one more thing. From my experience it is better to boil the bones as less as possible. Yes from one point of view it will influence water parameters more for the first time, but in such way the bone will work longer.

 

[Irene0100]

thanks, the more the bone is cooked the more brittle it becomes and so I guess harder to clean out too. I give my dogs raw bones to eat but never cooked ones because the can splinter.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I imagine the Hyp's must graze on the bone as well. As hobbyists we really know very little about our fishes true requirements and maybe this replaces key minerals from there diet.

Now that is a thought, I definitely think I'll give this a go.

Another thought occurs that for people who naturally have soft calcium deficient water this might prove to be a very good technique for both hardening the water and providing the fish with calcium, a bit like having a cuttle fish "bone" for a Budgie.

the more the bone is cooked the more brittle it becomes

I think boiling will remove some of the organic compounds that help strengthen the bone, this might make a difference to how well they last.

cheers Darrel

 

[AleGer]

Today I"ve found eggs of Hypancistrus sp. L340 in the bone cave: