set-up upgrade question

[zeebo]

hi guys,
a friend is offering me a 30USg tank/kit he used for angels . The tank has been torn down for a few weeks.

I plan to accept it, and i know i will need to clean and rinse everything well.

I will tear down my 20g , and move 1 HOB and the 2 hydro-sponge filters.
However, i plan to ditch my aqueon HOB which is also on the 20g, and prefer to use the larger HOB that I get with the tank. I will also use same gravel .

If i move the bags of seeded biomatrix from the aqueon to the bigger filter ,will i still get a mini-cycle or will it be ready for fish immediately?
I plan to move a very small amount of fish (bn, and 5 dither).

there is some mulm built up on the aqueon which i will loose.
will that matter ?

just wanna know what to expect and if i need to do anythnig else .
thanks,
georgie

 

[Art_Gal]

Personally, I think you should be fine! I would still test the water daily for a while just to be sure it doesn't go through a mini cycle, but it's not a huge change over. I recently removed all of my substrate out of my 75g and replaced it with a completely new substrate. I was worried about a mini cycle because I would be loosing a decent amount of beneficial bacteria. I only had 1 very minor ammonia spike a few days later (I tested the water daily) but aside from that, nothing else.

 

[bigbird]

Morning, evening, look agree with art_gal, the main bacteria is in the filter media. The mulm is not that important and moving the sand accross will also help. I would still attach the HOB to the 30G before you ditch it, it will help with settling in the tank. I would just monitor the water and it should be fine. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[zeebo]

thanks A-G and BB,
BB, do you mean attach the empty aqueon anyway along with the other 2 HOB's or leave the biomatrix in it for a while before I ditch it ?

Thanks guys,
georgie

 

[bigbird]

ok i would get new media for your new hob, however the old one with the old media attach to it as well and remove after 7-10days, then you new one will have sufficient media bacteria in it. It would also be fine to move the old media to the new one, just give it a little rinse. It just depends on your finance. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[zeebo]

thanks bb , i do have extra media/clay biomatrix in my ''box of extra fish stuff''
so i can do that. appreciate

georgie

 

[Lornek8]

ok i would get new media for your new hob, however the old one with the old media attach to it as well and remove after 7-10days, then you new one will have sufficient media bacteria in it. It would also be fine to move the old media to the new one, just give it a little rinse. It just depends on your finance. cheers jk :thumbup:

I disagree with this plan to use new media with the filter. Your best bet would be to use the media from the Aqueon and place it into the other filter. Add additional media to fill additional capacity in the filter if required. The filter media is what holds the bacteria, the filter housing is simply a container for the media. It doesn't matter what tank you add new media to, an established one or a new tank, the filter media will still take longer than 7-10 days to become established. Why waste the media you've already established?

 

[zeebo]

hi Lornek,
ok , i see what you are saying...perhaps i was not clear enough , i will try again. I currently have 2 H0B's and 2 hydra-sponge filters on the 20g. 1 HOB is an aqueon and the other is a penguin bio-wheel.

the tank he is giving me is a kit , which i have seen in action, and it also had a biowheel HOB filter , but i believe it is bigger than the aqueon which is stuffed with bags of seeded biomatirx and sponge. I want to toss the aqueon but planned to put the seeded bags and sponge in the biowheel he will give me, (not thrilled about this kind but it's free..) so i will have more space in the new filter ,which is where i guess i will be stuffing it more with new biomatrix.

My main concern was if i did not transfer the aqueon with all that mulm built up, would that cause a mini-cycle...what i want to avoid .

so from your response, it is basically just a shell when i transfer the ''goodies'' to the new tank, and bb said not to worry about the lost mulm... so did i explain that more clear? i just wanna avoid the dreaded minicycle. thanks appreciate ,

georgie

 

[zeebo]

:wb:duhhh, sorry, should have added i will also transfer MY seeded penguin filter along with the 2 hydra-sponge filters,and gravel, everything will be move incl water. hope that is right way . the 20g with it's filters has been running about 4 years.
thanks

georgie

 

[Lornek8]

hi Lornek,
ok , i see what you are saying...perhaps i was not clear enough , i will try again. I currently have 2 H0B's and 2 hydra-sponge filters on the 20g. 1 HOB is an aqueon and the other is a penguin bio-wheel.

the tank he is giving me is a kit , which i have seen in action, and it also had a biowheel HOB filter , but i believe it is bigger than the aqueon which is stuffed with bags of seeded biomatirx and sponge. I want to toss the aqueon but planned to put the seeded bags and sponge in the biowheel he will give me, (not thrilled about this kind but it's free..) so i will have more space in the new filter ,which is where i guess i will be stuffing it more with new biomatrix.

My main concern was if i did not transfer the aqueon with all that mulm built up, would that cause a mini-cycle...what i want to avoid .

so from your response, it is basically just a shell when i transfer the ''goodies'' to the new tank, and bb said not to worry about the lost mulm... so did i explain that more clear? i just wanna avoid the dreaded minicycle. thanks appreciate ,

georgie

I understood your concerns & explenation. My post was more directed to the recommendation to throw away the media & use new media in the "new-to-you" filter. The plan the way you described is perfect. No need to fret over the mulm but definitely transfer over all the filter media you can. The emphasis placed on used water is in my opinion not worth the effort. I've started many a tank with new tap water & have had little difficulty. I could attribute my success with the great quality tap water we have in Hawaii but I've also done similar things in other parts of the country. If you're worried let the water sit with an airstone in it for 24 hours before placing it in the tank or even filter it with carbon first. Many amazing discus breeders in South East Asia change 100% of their tank water a day & run no filtration but their discus still flourish. The fear of new water comes about when keepers don't change water often & then change a lot of water at once. Over time conditions in an aquarium change due to the breakdown of ammonia, relesase of tannins in driftwood, etc. When a large amount of tapwater is changed at once that is vastly different than the water in the tank, this is when problems manifest.

Unfortunately you'll still probably get a mini-cycle to some extent but then you would almost irregardless of what you did simply becasue of all the shifting around. What you need to concentrate on is simply minimizing the magnitude of the mini cycle. This can be accomplished by limiting how much food is offered in the beginning & gradually increasing the feedings over time.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The fear of new water comes about when keepers don't change water often & then change a lot of water at once. Over time conditions in an aquarium change due to the breakdown of ammonia, relesase of tannins in driftwood, etc. When a large amount of tapwater is changed at once that is vastly different than the water in the tank, this is when problems manifest.

I agree with Lorne, I usually do a 10% water change every day, but I've found that you can change a really large volume of water (75%) without any problem, problems come when the new water contains chloramine, is much colder or the tank water contains ammonium (NH4+) and the new water raises the pH, leading to ammonia poisoning. When I started keeping fish perceived wisdom was that "aged water" had all sorts of magical properties, and most keepers did very few, if any, water changes and a lot of fish like Discus were regarded as nearly impossible to keep.

Unfortunately you'll still probably get a mini-cycle to some extent but then you would almost irregardless of what you did simply becasue of all the shifting around. What you need to concentrate on is simply minimizing the magnitude of the mini cycle. This can be accomplished by limiting how much food is offered in the beginning & gradually increasing the feedings over time.

Sound advice as well, if you have plants they should preferentially mop up a lot of the ammonia, and reduce the mini-cycle.

cheers Darrel

 

[Art_Gal]

if you have plants they should preferentially mop up a lot of the ammonia, and reduce the mini-cycle.

cheers Darrel

I agree that plants are a big help in the overall cycle of the tank. I run a planted tank and the plants do seem to help.

I would take the airstone advice and run it for 24 hours. But I'm going to bet that if anything, the cycle will be a very minor one. It sounds like there is a lot of established media being brought over. And it isn't as though he's going from a 20g to a 75g or bigger. He's going from 20g to 30g. I don't know but keep us posted. I'll be curious to know if your going to see a cycle at all :dk:

 

[jessonthenet]

If you are moving the same amount of fish to a bigger tank than you will only need the same amount of original filter media.

The bacteria on the original media was able to detoxify the fish waste in a 20g tank so it will still be able to detoxify it in an upgraded 30g tank.

There is a chance you could lose a small amount of bacteria that you cant move. That will be negligible. Larger water volume with the same amount of fish waste will dilute it more anyway so if you do lose a little bit of bacteria it wont do much damage, if any.

Add more filter media with the old and as you gradually add more stock bacteria will multiply as they have more food source in the form of added fish waste.

 

[zeebo]

thanks Lornek,
appreciate the explanation, and thanks for the heads up on the feedings

Georgie

 

[zeebo]

I agree that plants are a big help in the overall cycle of the tank. I run a planted tank and the plants do seem to help.

I would take the airstone advice and run it for 24 hours. But I'm going to bet that if anything, the cycle will be a very minor one. It sounds like there is a lot of established media being brought over. And it isn't as though he's going from a 20g to a 75g or bigger. He's going from 20g to 30g. I don't know but keep us posted. I'll be curious to know if your going to see a cycle at all :dk:

:wb:
sorry, eveyone, somehow my computer scrolled right past all your new posts so i missed them....need another cup of coffee i guess:whistle:

thanks eveyone for your advice.

A-G, funny , I am a chick, use my nickname

ok, will update when i get it to let you know how it goes.
Georgie

 

[Art_Gal]

Sorry that I referred to you as "he" :blushing: I mean SHE is bringing over a lot of established filter media...I think you're going to be fine. Jump in and enjoy the upgrade!