Please Read: Plecs banned from export(Brazil)

[Rabbit]

Following the decision of PlecoPlanet the following wild caught species will not be permitted for sale.
Any classified post containing wild caught specimens of the following will be removed, and may result in a possible infraction.


L046, L098 – Hypancistrus zebra – Imperial Pleco, Zebra Pleco
L053 – Harttia sp. (L053)
L058 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L058)
L063 – Pseadacanthicus sp. cf. serratus
L064 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L064)
L065 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L065) – Blizzard Cactus Pleco, Mustang Cactus Pleco
L068 – Ancistrini sp. (L068)
L069 – Ancistrini sp. (L069)
L070 – Hypancistrus sp. (L070) – Zombie Pleco
L079 – Pseadacanthicus sp. (L079)
L082 – Ancistrini sp. (L082) – Opal Spot Pleco, Polka-dot Cigar Pleco
L086, LDA14 – Oligancistrus sp. (L086)
L102 – Hypancistrus inspector – Snowball Pleco
L138 – Hypostomus sp. (L138)
L139 – Hypostomus sp. (L139)
L143 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L143)
L171, LDA15 – Hopliancistrus sp. (L171)
L174 – Hypancistrus sp. (L174)
L175 – Oligancistrus sp. (L175)
L178 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L178) – Red Fin Lasiancistrus
L179 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L179)
L186 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L186)
L196 – Pterygoplichthys lituratus
L197 – Ancistrini sp. (L197)
L198 – Ancistrini sp. (L198)
L208 – Ancistrini sp. (L208)
L210 – Ancistrini sp. (L210)
L217 – Lithoxus sp. (L217)
L221, L223 – Guyanancistrus sp. (L221)
L238, LDA40 – Delturus sp. (L238) – Brook Pleco
L250 – Hypancistrus sp. (L250)
L251 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L251)
L254 – Spectracanthicus sp. (L254)
L256 – Lithoxus sp. (L256)
L258 – Parancistrus sp. (L258)
L263 – Leporacanthicus sp. (L263)
L270, L307, LDA76 – Hypancistrus sp. (L270) – Chocolate Zebra Pleco, Tapajos Zebra Pleco
L272 – Panaque sp. (L272)
L275 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L275)
L283 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L283)
L290, L291 – Squaliforma cf. horrida
L294 – Leporacanthicus cf. galaxias (L294)
L296 – Panaque sp. (L296)
L297 – Hypancistrus sp. (L297)
L299 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L299)
L310, LDA51 – Hypostomus cochliodon
L315 – Spectracanthicus sp. (L315)
L318 – Hypancistrus sp. (L318)
L320 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L320)
L321 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L321)
L328 – Pseudolithoxus sp. (L328)
L332 – Parancistrus sp. (L332)
L337 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L337)
L343 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L343)
L345 – Hypancistrus sp. (L345)
L347 – Pterygoplichthys sp. (L347)
L353 – Oligancistrus sp. (L353)
L360 – Hypostomus sp. (L360)
L361 – Hopliancistrus sp. (L361)
L363 – Oligancistrus sp. (L363)
L365 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L365)
L366 – Hypostomus sp. (L366)
L367 – Hypostomus sp. (L367)
L373 – Oligancistrus sp. (L373)
L374 – Panaque sp. (L374)
L375 – Pseudacanthicus cf. spinosus
L380 – Pseudcanathicus sp. (L380)
L381 – Hypostomus sp. (L381)
L383 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L383)
L385 – Pseudolithoxus sp. (L385)
L391 – Oligancistrus sp. (L391)
L397 – Panaque sp. (L397)
L399 – Hypancistrus sp. (L399)
L400 – Hypancistrus sp. (L400)

If there is a certain species that you should feel incorrectly placed or not on the list please feel free to notify myself or another staff member.:hi:

 

[Doodles]

If anyone has any info regarding an update to this list then please let us know.

Thanks

 

[bigbird]

considering the list is nearly 2years old and not all of the L400 series are showing, I am sure there must be a new list somewhere. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[Jo Crane]

Where did this list come from?

IBAMA have never produced a "banned" list they do produce a list of allowed species. A lot of L's are not mentioned as a lot of the fish are not scientifically described the L Numbers being a European system and a branding given at export imo.

There are areas of fishing exclusion & restrictions that are listed and these are also changed: spawning seasons, stock levels, water levels so on so it would depend if the fish are fished from and at what time

There is a list of fish list of species of aquatic animals threatened with extinction but still no ban list

All this factual information is readily available from IBAMA

 

[macvsog23]

I can not understand how some one can say "Banned" when the fish as Joe quite rightly pointed out is not described and as such has no zoological or biological standing.
it has almost impossible to tell one scribble from another.
As Joe states its more a what is allowed list being used right now, this also presents problems as it would be hard to place what is coming out as to the Species.
really this whole thing was a sop to the environmentalists and more of a knee jerk reaction from the governments.
sadly we in the hobby have made it far worse by offering high prices for the more exotic fish.
We went through all this in the 1970,s /80.s with CITES and the bans on this and that.

 

[Jo Crane]

The thing is the fish are not banned there is no ban list it doesn't exist there might be fishing restrictions in certain catch locations at any one period of time that will include certain sp. but there certainly is no ban list in existence.

 

[scatz]

there is no "Banned list" but there are "approved" lists, reason would suggest that those not on the "Approved list" are therefore not approved (banned) for export.
I have sent a message to Janne Ekstrom who is currently working with IBAMA for some clarification as to what is or isn't allowed to be exported from Brazil.

 

[Jo Crane]

Take a look yourself http://www.ibama.gov.br/
The fish are not banned from export this again is another made up scenario the areas are either allowed to be fished in or not, if not the fish should not be touched

 

[scatz]

i've tried looking through their site before but never got very far. a "definative" list, wheter its for allowed/ banned/ not fished plecs, has always been the one thing that has been hard to come across.
The list we have been working from was the best source available at the time, I think it may have come from Janne on pc, whether it is complete/ incorrect/ totally irrelevant, i dont know, hopefully Janne will be able to shed some light on it.
But in the meantime, it was decided by the members here to adhere to the ban and not allow the sale of "banned" plecs.
Or has this intention changed?

 

[scatz]

ok, i have had a reply from Janne that does clear up a few things:

"Hi Brian, I checked the list and following is allowed for export in your list; L030, L050, L056, L077, L095, L113 and L234 (2 different species), L137, L155, L168. Here is the actual list of permitted species http://www.ibama.gov.br/recursos-pesqueiros/lista-especies-continental/ There will be a new list published this year where many of the "banned" plecos will be allowed again for export."


with this in mind, we will update the list of plecs that cannot be advertised on here

 

[Jo Crane]

I will send you the link to the lists page on there when I get back from work its on the home comp.
Totally lost the point to this now. Facts are easier to run with and the sourse of information must be from them that impose the rules not someone else view of it or its just pie in the sky as are a lot of the L Numbers dished out to fish we commonly see now.
The only fact is there is no ban list so like I asked before where has the ban list come from it is not one that IBAMA has produced so is not factual yes there are fish that cannot be caught because they are in a restricted or prohibited fishing area and there are some fish that are in these areas that are allowed to be fished, there are also fish in these areas that have not been scientificaly described or recently discovered to just add them to a non existant ban list is not working with the facts is it this is my point.

 

[scatz]

see the allowed list posted in the link provided by janne. any fish not on the allowed list is obviously banned

 

[macvsog23]

:dk::wb:

 

[scatz]

:dk::wb:

what?

 

[macvsog23]

confused now banned not banned allowed not allowed its all to munch for my poor brain

 

[scatz]

lol, the list at the start of the thread are the plecs that are not on IBAMA's list of plecs allowed for export, so for all intents and purposes, these are the banned fish

 

[Sambo]

Following the decision of PlecoPlanet the following wild caught species will not be permitted for sale.
Any classified post containing wild caught specimens of the following will be removed, and may result in a possible infraction.


L002, L074 – Panaque sp.(L002) – Tiger ”Peckoltia”
L004, L005, L028, L073 – Hypancistrus Sp. (L004) – Angelicus Pleco
L010 – Loricaria lata
L011, L035, L108, L116 – Squaliforma cf. emarginata – Red Fin Thresher Pleco, Thresher Pleco
L017 –Hopliancistrus sp. (L017)
L020 – Oligancistrus sp. (L020)
L021 , L023 – Pterygoplichthys pardalis - Albino Pleco, Common Pleco
L024 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L024) – Flame Pleco, Red Fin Cactus Pleco
L025 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L025) – Scarlet Pleco
L027 – Panaque sp. cf. nigrolineatus ‘tapajos’ – Goldline Royal Pleco, Tapajos Royal Pleco, L027 Tapajos
L027, L027c – Panaque sp. cf. nigrolineatus ‘tocantins’ – Platinum Royal Pleco, Tocantins Royal Pleco, L027 Tocantins
L027, L027c, LDA63 – Panaque sp. cf. nigrolineatus ‘xingu’ – Longnosed Royal Pleco, Red Fin Royal Pleco, Xingu Royal Pleco, L027 ‘xingu’
L027a, L330 – Panaque cf. nigrolineatus – Watermelon Pleco
L027b – Panaque sp. cf. nigrolineatus – Olive Royal Pleco, Teles Pires Royal Pleco
L031, L176, L300, LDA04 – Parancistrus nudiventris – Peppermint Pleco
L033 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L033)
L036 – Hemiancistrus spilomma
L046, L098 – Hypancistrus zebra – Imperial Pleco, Zebra Pleco
L053 – Harttia sp. (L053)
L058 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L058)
L063 – Pseadacanthicus sp. cf. serratus
L064 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L064)
L065 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L065) – Blizzard Cactus Pleco, Mustang Cactus Pleco
L066 – Hypancistrus sp. (L066) – King Tiger Pleco, Network Pleco, Scribbled Pleco
L067 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L067)
L068 – Ancistrini sp. (L068)
L069 – Ancistrini sp. (L069)
L070 – Hypancistrus sp. (L070) – Zombie Pleco
L079 – Pseadacanthicus sp. (L079)
L082 – Ancistrini sp. (L082) – Opal Spot Pleco, Polka-dot Cigar Pleco
L083, L165 – Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps – Gibby, Sail Fin Pleco
L086, LDA14 – Oligancistrus sp. (L086)
L096, L160 – Pseudacanthicus spinosus – Coffee & Cream Pleco, Spiny Monster Pleco
L097 – Pseaudacanthicus sp. (L097) – Polka Dot Cactus Pleco
L102 – Hypancistrus inspector – Snowball Pleco
L136, L136a, L136b, LDA05, LDA06 – Hypancistrus sp. (L136)
L138 – Hypostomus sp. (L138)
L139 – Hypostomus sp. (L139)
L143 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L143)
L171, LDA15 – Hopliancistrus sp. (L171)
L172 – Ancistrini sp. (L172)
L174 – Hypancistrus sp. (L174)
L175 – Oligancistrus sp. (L175)
L178 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L178) – Red Fin Lasiancistrus
L179 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L179)
L185 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L185)
L186 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L186)
L196 – Pterygoplichthys lituratus
L197 – Ancistrini sp. (L197)
L198 – Ancistrini sp. (L198)
L208 – Ancistrini sp. (L208)
L210 – Ancistrini sp. (L210)
L216, L151 – Dekeyseria scaphirhyncha – Flat Head Pleco
L217 – Lithoxus sp. (L217)
L221, L223 – Guyanancistrus sp. (L221)
L238, LDA40 – Delturus sp. (L238) – Brook Pleco
L250 – Hypancistrus sp. (L250)
L251 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L251)
L254 – Spectracanthicus sp. (L254)
L256 – Lithoxus sp. (L256)
L258 – Parancistrus sp. (L258)
L259, LDA32 – Parancistrus sp. (LDA32)
L260 – Hypancistrus sp. (L260) – Queen Arabesque Pleco
L262 – Hypancistrus sp. (L262)
L263 – Leporacanthicus sp. (L263)
L270, L307, LDA76 – Hypancistrus sp. (L270) – Chocolate Zebra Pleco, Tapajos Zebra Pleco
L271 – Panaque sp. (L271)
L272 – Panaque sp. (L272)
L273 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L273) – Titanicus Pleco
L275 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L275)
L283 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L283)
L290, L291 – Squaliforma cf. horrida
L294 – Leporacanthicus cf. galaxias (L294)
L296 – Panaque sp. (L296)
L297 – Hypancistrus sp. (L297)
L299 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L299)
L310, LDA51 – Hypostomus cochliodon
L315 – Spectracanthicus sp. (L315)
L318 – Hypancistrus sp. (L318)
L320 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L320)
L321 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L321)
L328 – Pseudolithoxus sp. (L328)
L332 – Parancistrus sp. (L332)
L337 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L337)
L343 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L343)
L333 – Hypancistrus sp. (L333)
L345 – Hypancistrus sp. (L345)
L347 – Pterygoplichthys sp. (L347)
L353 – Oligancistrus sp. (L353)
L354 – Oligancistrus sp. (L354)
L360 – Hypostomus sp. (L360)
L361 – Hopliancistrus sp. (L361)
L363 – Oligancistrus sp. (L363)
L365 – Lasiancistrus sp. (L365)
L366 – Hypostomus sp. (L366)
L367 – Hypostomus sp. (L367)
L373 – Oligancistrus sp. (L373)
L374 – Panaque sp. (L374)
L375 – Pseudacanthicus cf. spinosus
L380 – Pseudcanathicus sp. (L380)
L381 – Hypostomus sp. (L381)
L383 – Pseudacanthicus sp. (L383)
L385 – Pseudolithoxus sp. (L385)
L391 – Oligancistrus sp. (L391)
L397 – Panaque sp. (L397)
L398 – Panaque sp. (L398)
L399 – Hypancistrus sp. (L399)
L400 – Hypancistrus sp. (L400)

If there is a certain species that you should feel incorrectly placed or not on the list please feel free to notify myself or another staff member.:hi:

How can anybody say they were'nt caught before your ban? or is that irrelevant?

I personally, want to take part in the AG L-Welse and breed as many of these species as possible and probably more in the future so that they will be around for my great great grandchildren to see and learn about and because ..well I can't help loving Loricariids, I think it's their sharky-frog features and characters<3,

... Now, if they are banned from sale in a forum that I initially joined in able to broaden the chances (through the collective knowledge, experience and opportunities) of acquiring, pairing and successfully breeding the ones that might not be around soon otherwise.. which I think would be far easier done before they're extinct...

..then how on earth do we (that care enough to-I'm not alone maybe you are one too?) suppose to save these species'?... obviously it's going to be without your help..which would've been significant. Maybe you have completed your breeding setup....

... Does any body on plecoplanet want to give me a batch of original wild L046 or L260 that they've spent years/money/fuel in collecting and maintaining but can no longer continue for whatever reason...

...for absolutely nothing:drool: because they are all of a sudden worthless money-wise as banned from being sold here? :yes:

You have a good intent but the situation is not as cut and dry as that.. which is why there is legislation..laws already in place or to be announced.

The way I see it is that most of the fish you have just banned for sale on your site are actually legal and already out of the country of origin.

Irony is..You may actually end up contributing to their detriment (the species and our great great great grandchildren) by inhibiting another's good intent with your own.

Do you have any of the banned list you wish to kindly donate? preferably species that grow no larger than 10 inches would be more than welcome.

But jokes aside.. really this is bad news for me.

 

[Lornek8]

How can anybody say they were'nt caught before your ban? or is that irrelevant?

I personally, want to take part in the AG L-Welse and breed as many of these species as possible and probably more in the future so that they will be around for my great great grandchildren to see and learn about and because ..well I can't help loving Loricariids, I think it's their sharky-frog features and characters<3,

... Now, if they are banned from sale in a forum that I initially joined in able to broaden the chances (through the collective knowledge, experience and opportunities) of acquiring, pairing and successfully breeding the ones that might not be around soon otherwise.. which I think would be far easier done before they're extinct...

..then how on earth do we (that care enough to-I'm not alone maybe you are one too?) suppose to save these species'?... obviously it's going to be without your help..which would've been significant. Maybe you have completed your breeding setup....

... Does any body on plecoplanet want to give me a batch of original wild L046 or L260 that they've spent years/money/fuel in collecting and maintaining but can no longer continue for whatever reason...

...for absolutely nothing:drool: because they are all of a sudden worthless money-wise as banned from being sold here? :yes:

You have a good intent but the situation is not as cut and dry as that.. which is why there is legislation..laws already in place or to be announced.

The way I see it is that most of the fish you have just banned for sale on your site are actually legal and already out of the country of origin.

Irony is..You may actually end up contributing to their detriment (the species and our great great great grandchildren) by inhibiting another's good intent with your own.

Do you have any of the banned list you wish to kindly donate? preferably species that grow no larger than 10 inches would be more than welcome.

But jokes aside.. really this is bad news for me.

Our "ban" is simply in support of Brazilian regulations which do not allow the export of those fish from Brazil. Thus any of these wild-caught fish currently for sale from Brazil are most likely exported illegally. While we may or may not personally support the regulations, we chose not to support the breaking of another country's laws as well. The ban on export has been in effect, to some extent, since 2006. Since many of these fsh have been captive bred, say for instance L046 & L240, there is no real necessity to continue to import wild-caught fish. The vast majority simply go to people who have no desire to breed them but rather simply to collect them. It is, after all, the exploitation of the wild population of L046 that initially led tot he Brazilian laws in the fisrt place.

 

[NeoCult]

I would say there is reason to import wild caught L46 etc still and that is the dams they are building, in 2 or so years many of these L numbers are not going to exist in the wild at all through extinction due to the dams

In Brazil they openly sell Zebra Pleco's WC and other L numbers in their street markets, if their own country want to wipe them all out, im all for buyin WC and keeping them alive

 

[scatz]

But still, regardless of personal opinions or views on the morality and ethics of the export ban, We are an international forum, It is Brazillian law that prohibits the export of these L numbers, and as a site, we decided that it only right that we support the laws rather than encourage the breaking of them.

This doesn't mean of course that you cant buy WC L numbers in each respective country, you just cant advertise them for sale on the open forums here