Please Read: Plecs banned from export(Brazil)

[matubula]

... Does any body on plecoplanet want to give me a batch of original wild L046 or L260 that they've spent years/money/fuel in collecting and maintaining but can no longer continue for whatever reason...

...for absolutely nothing:drool: because they are all of a sudden worthless money-wise as banned from being sold here? :yes:

These fish are definitely not worthless, the price of all 'banned' fish has increased two, three, four times their previous prices.

And although these fish aren't openly sold on this forum, their care and husbandry is openly discussed, so might I suggest sending a personal message (PM) is the way to go.

Another place to find fish is Aquarist Classifieds, and since you mention L046 and L260, try this http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail51_238865.php

 

[Sambo]

I certainly don't break the law. But I would always do the right thing.
Thankyou for your responses and you are right to adhere to Brazil's law.
It's apauling to read they are openly sold on the streets - at least they can't poison the river like in China if you accidentally discover someones shrimp stream - but I see the bigger picture and can appreciate there is severe hardship and a vast expanse of land-edit or water should I say- to police but also the luxury it is to have the power and resources to influence the destiny of certain species.
Thankyou mostly to matubula for the care and husbandry pointer, as knowledge is definitely king, and the link as I'm sure it will prove to be .. invaluable yes pun intended but with most gratitude.
Sam.

 

[FF MkII]

There is no offence intended in this post but please stop harping on about the dams and that should be an excuse to rape the rivers of all the fish because NO ONE knows what will happen and how the fish will cope.

 

[Jo Crane]

The Xingu is 1300 miles long maybe longer and in places many several miles wide, think about it thats almost twice the length of the UK, in my mind realistic thought these fish are spread wide and far its just many parts of the river have never been fished or even accessed the biggest impact will be on the local population to the dam area the fish will find a way (just my opinion being realistic)

 

[SilverDub]

Hi everyone long time no speak, I see the debate still rages on. As we're on the subject of personal opinion here is my small and only contribution.

IBAMA is corrupt and flawed! The indigenous species/fish within the immediate areas to be affected should be added to the endangered species list (but they won't be) there future is in grave danger. Sadly there are 1000's of species involved already on this list and the big institutions have there work cut out with the species they are trying to preserve.

I share the same opinion as NeoCult - the time is now and these fish now need to be removed from there habitat and out of harms way, phase 1 is imminant (look on Google Earth) I for one would like to see some of these species preserved for our planet. It will take 100,000 people just to build it, can you imagine how polution will start to spill into the water (oil, deisel, lime, concrete, human waste, litter and who knows what else?)

Jo has a very good point the Xingu would dwarf the UK and many regions will be totally unaffected, but the Belo Monte Dam construction will be a land mark decision and I personally think it will be the one that makes it a lot easier for the other 50+ proposed dam projects within the Amazon Basin to be given the go ahead - a crime a against the planet is almost upon us.

Good luck all you breeders out there.

 

[FF MkII]

I wonder how many of you would care if the L's had no profit behind them??

 

[Jo Crane]

There is a dam going up in Peru that will have the same effect not much mention of that

 

[SilverDub]

Jo there are hundreds major dams in proposal around the world that hardly anyone except the people that will be immediately affected. I am a member of International Rivers (http://www.internationalrivers.org/en/about-international-rivers) and get regular updates on there campaigns, to be honest the Belo Monte Dam(n) is only 1 of many.

Okay my second post.

 

[macvsog23]

one point we the west have raped this planet for around 400 years starting with the slave trade and finally the mining and deforestation. Now we ask the people of what we call the 3rd world to not copy us?
Never mind the dams just think when you buy that £10 pair of boots were the acid from the tanning goes?

 

[mikebren12]

As one who dosn't breed these beautiful fish, but has a rekindled affection for them(and other tropical fish) I do think it would be a shame if some or a lot are lost for good because of the dam(n) projects.

However as FF MKII says no-one can know what will happen until sadly it does, lets hope those of you that do breed can help in the future, if as predicted the worst does happen.

I will for one be very sad if lots of the species known to us disappear for good.

I remember in the late 70's and early 80's when there wasn't much availability and lots of the species were neither imported, discovered or sold for us all to enjoy.

Whilst I don't know the answer to the problem I can only hope the worst remains a long off prediciment.

Just my two penneth worth!


Mike

 

[NeoCult]

I wonder how many of you would care if the L's had no profit behind them??

Me I bought Zebs when I first saw them in my LFS for £25 per fish years ago, and they have been my favourite fish ever since, they are pretty much what got me into fish, I paid more for discus back then too, so I for one would still be keeping them regardless

 

[NeoCult]

There is no offence intended in this post but please stop harping on about the dams and that should be an excuse to rape the rivers of all the fish because NO ONE knows what will happen and how the fish will cope.

Thats not true, certain parts of the rio xingu river are going to drain to dry in winter including the area the L046 lives, drainage = species death, I shall harp on as it's fact and I don't like it......

 

[macvsog23]

Again I ask what we are doing ?
This type of wanton destruction is happening world wide. It is based on Muti-nationals and the power of money feeding the greed of the west.
We are the cause and the cure.
If you all take one day a week were you do not buy from the multi-nationals then we may make a dent, we may make them sit up. MAY but can you go with out your £ 5 for 3 T Shirts? can you go for sausages costing over £1 for 10? can you shop at a local shop, can you buy your milk for over £1:00 a pint? Can you not buy that £10 pair of shoes were the acid from the tannin proses is just dumped straight in the river.Can you buy that cheap 6 pack of Coke were the materials were not mined in Brazil and the electricity for the smelting is not generated by the dam?
For a day may be for the rest of your life? I doubt it.
It is simple we have reached this point because of greed because we have raped and exploited nature for over 400 years, and we cant turn back, we cant have the life we lead then, we demand more, better, cheaper and for less effort. the thing that winds me up is we cant admit it we hide behind some weak and selfish idea of our rights and our superiority over nature.

 

[Lornek8]

Thats not true, certain parts of the rio xingu river are going to drain to dry in winter including the area the L046 lives, drainage = species death, I shall harp on as it's fact and I don't like it......

May I ask where you're getting this information from?
Sure, a dam affects river flow, above a dam water collects, below a dam water level is controlled by the dam. However, as this dam is being created to produce electricity, you can't get electricity without flow. This is not an instance of damming a river for irrigation or drinking water, thus it really makes no sense to allow the river to run dry. Who knows things could get better. Take for instance, the Sacramento River in Northern California. With thoughtful design the Shasta Dam has actually helped improve the river condition by regulating the water flow of the river & drawing cold, nutrient rich water from the bottom of the lake. This has created a world class tailwater fishery that grows monster trout.

 

[SilverDub]

Very wise words Bob I agree completely. Society needs to re-build the value into the products we consume.

Lornek8 the plan is to bypass the Belo Monte bend by building to pipes though the forest diverting the bulk of water away frowm the bend, this area will become a marsh land.

 

[FF MkII]

Parts of the river system dry up every year anyway. The best thing we as humans can do is relocate the fish that "could" be in danger not use it as an excuse to take everyone out and sell to make a few quid. Zebs don't need to be wild caught anyway, there are enough private breeders about to keep the species going for a very long time yet.

 

[scatz]

Its been said here before, but we cannot predict exactly what is going to happen, but one thing is for sure, at some point over the last few thousand years, all of these drainage areas would have run dry for a period, and as always, nature will find a way.
All we can do is hope that it does.
there will always be an arguement for and against taking all the fish from these areas, yes it could save them, or ultimately it could wipe them out (not all fish keepers are good at it, and with losses occuring from transportation, we could actually kill most of the rare sp instead of saving them)
I would guess that the "experts" have discussed all avenues and we have to leave it in their hands.
Just my opinions of course

 

[Bigjohnnofish]

i have one big question to ask... how do you tell a wc L046 from one that has been bred in captivity and grown up ???

there are some people out there who have bred the so called "unbreedable" L-numbers in captivity.... if and when they are sold on a forum is someone going to remove their thread??? will they have to prove they arent wc... ???

im all for following the new laws as obviously they have been made for a reason... but there appears to be a large grey area here as to what is wc and what is not wc....
technically all prodigy have to have come from wc fish at some stage... does that mean they fall under the same catergorie... ??? would that mean the end of all pleco forums... ???

or does it mean you just cant advertise a fish as being wc ??? whether it is or not ???

 

[FF MkII]

Firstly a plec forum isn't based on the classifieds as some people think it is so without a classifieds a forum won't end, certainly not this one. The classifieds are perk, not the be all and end all.

Secondly WC banned sp are hard to come by and that reflects on the price and also the description of the fish. You will very rarely find a WC banned sp being advertised for the price of tank bred as the seller will most likely be making a loss or breaking even and let's face it you don't go through all that trouble of importing a sp just to get your money back do you?

There are tell tale signs.

 

[SilverDub]

FAO Lornek8 & FFMKII

Please read this link. Go about half way through the thread. This is lifted from very reliable source. Slightly diiferent to my version of events but still summarises in the demise of our oxugen loving loricads.

http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showproduct.php/product/58

Hope it helps explan the problems at hand.