algae bloom and external filters
- Thread starter Tambo
- Start date
Hi not tested nitrates as yet. i do 2 30% changes during the week and a 10 - 20 at the weekend and its only happened since i removed my plants (got destroyed by clown loaches) going to get some more this weekend :thumbup: and im keeping the lights off and the filtration question was a different subject didnt make my post clear enough to tired :wb:
Water changes are only useful if your tap water doesn't contain high nitrates. Changing your water may actually be increasing the nitrates not lowering them.
Algae blooms are caused by high nutrients and excessive Light, try looking into all this first before buying a new filter...Btw a Eheim classic 2217 would fit the bill...I'll probably get shot down for this but the Tetra tec ex 1200 is still an awesome filter when it doesn't leak...It is now been updated with a new tap assembly, so the leaking problems seem to be in the past.I've somehow ended up with algae bloom :dk: but anyway i was thinking of double filtering my tank i already have a fluval 405 and was looking for a second filter with around 1200L per hour turnover as chap as possible anyone recommend any? cheers
Thats good news, apart from the leak, my 1200 has run perfectly for 3 or 4 years now:thumbup:
Hi,
Ammonia coupled with light triggers algae to bloom, nutrients only feed it. Fact.
Nutrients are not ever the cause of algae but always get blamed, like a smoking gun. True if there are no nutrients available the algae can't grow but you can have nutrients present without algae. Therefore the trigger has to be elsewhere.
This is one of the first things you learn when keeping a planted tank, nutrients including nitrate are actually deliberately added to the water to feed the plants without algae blooms providing the ammonia is kept in check.
Chris.
Ammonia coupled with light triggers algae to bloom, nutrients only feed it. Fact.
Nutrients are not ever the cause of algae but always get blamed, like a smoking gun. True if there are no nutrients available the algae can't grow but you can have nutrients present without algae. Therefore the trigger has to be elsewhere.
This is one of the first things you learn when keeping a planted tank, nutrients including nitrate are actually deliberately added to the water to feed the plants without algae blooms providing the ammonia is kept in check.
Chris.
I understand what you are saying, but I find that most algae blooms that we are asked to deal with, findings are high No3 combined with customer using excessive lighting...None of the problem tanks we have been asked to help with ever had ammonia present.
Hi all,
Tambo, you need to leave the light on, and remove as much of the algae as you can. The algae is still doing a useful job for you, by removing nitrogen from the water, if you turn the light off the algae will die, potentially releasing ammonia (NH3) back into the tank and there will be nothing removing the nitrate (NO3) from the water, allowing levels to build up even further.
When you remove the algae you export the NO3. The algae will grow quickly again while the combination of light and nutrients is there. Once you have plants again they will perform this role. PM if you want some floating plants, I have a lot you can have.
I'd carry on changing water, even if you only have tap water, as Lorne and Jess say you can't easily remove the NO3 in any other way. Legally tap water shouldn't have more than 50ppm NO3, having said that this contamination of surface water with NO3 is one of the reasons why a lot of people use HMA/RO water (or rain water). Because you are in Scotland, unless you live in a big grain growing area? or a major city? the water should be reasonably low in NO3.
Personally I agree with D-MAC,
I don't think this scenario is relevant for many of us. In our tanks NO3 is nearly always the end result of the NH3 > nitrite (NO2) > NO3 conversion, we don't find the NH3, because it is difficult to measure, can out-gas from small samples etc, what we find is the NO3, if you like it isn't the smoking gun, it is the bullet hole that tells us the gun was there.
cheers Darrel
I think you are all correct, Tambo's problem is caused because the nitrogen, that used to be utilised by the growing plants, is now available to other green plants, in this case presumably planktonic algae or filamentous green thread algae.
Tambo, you need to leave the light on, and remove as much of the algae as you can. The algae is still doing a useful job for you, by removing nitrogen from the water, if you turn the light off the algae will die, potentially releasing ammonia (NH3) back into the tank and there will be nothing removing the nitrate (NO3) from the water, allowing levels to build up even further.
When you remove the algae you export the NO3. The algae will grow quickly again while the combination of light and nutrients is there. Once you have plants again they will perform this role. PM if you want some floating plants, I have a lot you can have.
I'd carry on changing water, even if you only have tap water, as Lorne and Jess say you can't easily remove the NO3 in any other way. Legally tap water shouldn't have more than 50ppm NO3, having said that this contamination of surface water with NO3 is one of the reasons why a lot of people use HMA/RO water (or rain water). Because you are in Scotland, unless you live in a big grain growing area? or a major city? the water should be reasonably low in NO3.
Personally I agree with D-MAC,
although L777 is almost certainly technically correct, we know this because some of aquascapers have experimented with very high NO3 levels (from adding potassium nitrate - KNO3) in ultra-clean, brightly illuminated (with added CO2) and hugely filtered planted tanks. These tanks don't develop algae as long as they are maintained to a very high level, but it is quite a difficult balancing act and as soon as flow is impeded, filter become dirty or CO2 levels fall algae can proliferate really quickly in the high light/nutrients/CO2 environment.
I don't think this scenario is relevant for many of us. In our tanks NO3 is nearly always the end result of the NH3 > nitrite (NO2) > NO3 conversion, we don't find the NH3, because it is difficult to measure, can out-gas from small samples etc, what we find is the NO3, if you like it isn't the smoking gun, it is the bullet hole that tells us the gun was there.
cheers Darrel
Hi,
Mmmmm!!
You should try high tech sometime Darrel. Every time I suffered algae blooms ammonia was at the root cause. Things happen so much faster in a high tech planted setup, so much so that cause and effect becomes blatantly obvious. You can have someone describe problems all day long but until you see / experience it first hand you don't really get the full picture IME.
Chris.
Mmmmm!!
You should try high tech sometime Darrel. Every time I suffered algae blooms ammonia was at the root cause. Things happen so much faster in a high tech planted setup, so much so that cause and effect becomes blatantly obvious. You can have someone describe problems all day long but until you see / experience it first hand you don't really get the full picture IME.
Chris.
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Hi,
Sorry Darrel just re-read your post and think I understand more clearly what your saying.
Personally though and it may be a more conditioned instinct now after running high tech for a while, I look for Ammonia spikes first, or more specifically there causes, and understand that nutrients only exasperate the problem.
Until the root cause i.e. ammonia or excessive light has been addressed you will continue to suffer from algae blooms regardless of nutrient levels unless they are zero.
Chris.
Sorry Darrel just re-read your post and think I understand more clearly what your saying.
Personally though and it may be a more conditioned instinct now after running high tech for a while, I look for Ammonia spikes first, or more specifically there causes, and understand that nutrients only exasperate the problem.
Until the root cause i.e. ammonia or excessive light has been addressed you will continue to suffer from algae blooms regardless of nutrient levels unless they are zero.
Chris.
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Hi all,
I try and have a large plant mass, lots of biological filtration potential and high oxygen levels, after this I don't worry too much about light level etc.
I've had "aquaria" under the grow lights in the glasshouse, with both huge bio-load and very high PAR, and these didn't grow a lot of algae. I'm not averse to the idea of high tech., but I want stability more than anything else.
CO2 gives you a potential increase in growth rate, but I'm not really after optimal growth rates, I'm after sustainable ones.
cheers Darrel
I try and have a large plant mass, lots of biological filtration potential and high oxygen levels, after this I don't worry too much about light level etc.
I've had "aquaria" under the grow lights in the glasshouse, with both huge bio-load and very high PAR, and these didn't grow a lot of algae. I'm not averse to the idea of high tech., but I want stability more than anything else.
CO2 gives you a potential increase in growth rate, but I'm not really after optimal growth rates, I'm after sustainable ones.
cheers Darrel
Hi,
I understand totally, probably more than most, and if I ever return to planted tanks this is the way I would also choose to go now.
I'm not sure how many of you are aware but most algae lives in two states.
Firstly the algae itself as in when you see it growing in its various forms within the tank and when in this form it's like any other plant-life in that it utilizes food (nutrients) and light to grow and therefore proliferate. That's why nutrients always get blamed.
But it reproduces by releasing spores into the water column which remain there quite happily like little seeds until they are triggered to bloom. No prizes for guessing what the triggers are, Ammonia + Light. This has been proven without any doubt time and again by planted tank experts and I have personally witnessed this many times first hand much to my annoyance.
The reason why its so obvious in a planted tank is because nutrients are deliberately dosed into the water column to feed the plants. Literally any small bloom even just a miniscule amount quickly becomes a problem because your trying to grow plant matter. You can't grow the plants without the nutrients present so a fuller understanding of the picture has to be achieved if planted tank hobbyists are to be successful. Hence the reams and reams of literature available on the subject and extensive testing by guys far superior to me.
The actual amount of ammonia required to act as a trigger isn't very much at all especially where relatively high levels of lighting are employed. So Joe Bloggs stiring up his substrate or overfeeding or leaving his lights on for to long etc, etc ,etc, starts the ball rolling. Once the cycle has started i.e. the spores blooming which in turn release more spores and so on, it has to be broken, a bit like treating Ich if you like.
But by understanding what causes ammonia spikes, when to expect them, how best to avoid them and how to deal with them when you have them the problems can be addressed before algae ever becomes an issue.
Fortunately getting rid of algae is relatively easy there are methods and products available to deal with the majority of types widely published but unless the spores and the triggers are addressed at the same time it'll come back to haunt you time and again.
Chris.
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Hi,
As an aside look back at post number 3 of this thread where the OP states "and its only happened since i removed my plants", there's your ammonia spike right there.......
Chris.
As an aside look back at post number 3 of this thread where the OP states "and its only happened since i removed my plants", there's your ammonia spike right there.......
Chris.