Breeding peppermints

[flame angel]

So everything is finally pretty much set up to start breeding peppermint bristlenoses, and I'm getting closer to tracking down the actual fish I will buy too - most likely 1 male and 2 female adults (depending on what I can get my hands on).
My tap water is pretty good too (I think):
pH 7.6
GH 80ppm
KH 40ppm

Just have a few questions...

Do you guys have any recommendations for the conditioning time? E.g. foods, water conditions...

Also there's a chance the peps will still have some growing to do when I get them (but this will apply to the fry anyway), so I want them to be growing at a decent rate - any tips? Obviously keep up the water changes (I'm thinking at least 2 per week), but what about food? I figure high protein foods will produce good growth, but its a bit hard with fish like these lol might keep the temperature fairly high too. I don't want to sacrifice quality/lifespan for increased growth though...just enough to keep them growing nicely.

Thanks a bunch

 

[mongy]

Hi Flame Angel, This is a personaly proven way of Breeding Peps
pH: 6.8
Temp: 28 Deg
dkH: less than 5 deg

Nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia is zero, I Keep Duckweed in the tank to neutralize this.

I use reverse osmosis (RO) water in the tanks. Peppermints like soft dirty water so I leave the water unchanged for 3 weeks then I do a 50% water change with RO Water and add black water extract as per recommended dose. But i would let them settle in to their new tank for a few weeks, By doing water changes 30% 2 times a week for 2 weeks then skip for 3 ;-)
I feed fresh veggies everyday, these include potato, sweet potato, beans, cucumber, pumpkin and zuccini

I also feed them high quality algae wafers and NLS

if you have pair that has not spawned before, wait for a rainy day to do the water change, the lower air pressure triggers an instant spawn and once they get started they should be able to spawn every 3-4 weeks.


This way the peppies will spawn within 3-4 days after the water change
Good luck

 

[scatz]

always worth reading through a few different breeding logs, what works for one doesn't always work for all. Here's a link to brenda's breeding log on here
http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8364

but check through some of the other logs for different species too, some people use different tricks to trigger a spawn, worth knowing a few to try

 

[flame angel]

mongy: awesome info thanks heaps!
Few questions - what ratio of males to females did you have? and did you use an egg tumbler? (if the male ever kicked the eggs out). Oh and what sort of numbers of eggs/fry surviving were you getting from each spawn?
Cheers!

scatz: Thanks, I've been looking at peoples experiences with them - read through that one quite a few times actually. Didn't really think of looking at much of other species, but that's a good idea! I'll keep reading. Think I'll try a few different ways first to see how I go, and hopefully after some practice see which one gets the biggest yield and stick to it.

 

[Brengun]

I don't know that pH particularly matters with the peps. Mine spawned in this after the water change, the other numbers are TDS Total dissolved solids, I have a digital monitor.
21/12/11 pep pair 190 / 6.9
22/12/11 pep pair 196 / wc
23/12/11 pep pair 165 / 7.0

I was watching them closely and it seemed that once she was nice and gravid it was on.

 

[flame angel]

I don't know that pH particularly matters with the peps. Mine spawned in this after the water change, the other numbers are TDS Total dissolved solids, I have a digital monitor.
21/12/11 pep pair 190 / 6.9
22/12/11 pep pair 196 / wc
23/12/11 pep pair 165 / 7.0

I was watching them closely and it seemed that once she was nice and gravid it was on.

Thanks, will keep that in mind. Do you think TDS is important? Haven't read much about it being mentioned.

 

[Brengun]

It just saves me doing a nitrate test. TDS meter, dip it in and instant reading. I have 28 tanks so I need it to be quick.
I have noticed with my TDS and everyones will be different according to their waters buffering capacity and feeding regime, that by the time my tds gets up there to 200 it is actually due for the weekly waterchange.

I keep a chart of TDS and one of my weekly roster.

Some tanks only have a couple of juvies in or they are planted and can go a tad longer than a week, in fact one tank went 2 weeks between a water change but then its a 4ft tank with only 2 plecos, 12 guppies and 3 cories in it and it is planted.
I checked nitrates and they were low too till the 2 week mark so now I know that one tank doesn't necessarily need a wc every single week. Less work for me.

 

[flame angel]

Oh okay fair enough.

Do you guys think having wood in there is necessary?

 

[AusPleco]

Brsitlenose like driftwood good fry the fry too

I am curious by your post mongy what does NLS stand for (food wise)

 

[mongy]

mongy: awesome info thanks heaps!
Few questions - what ratio of males to females did you have? and did you use an egg tumbler? (if the male ever kicked the eggs out). Oh and what sort of numbers of eggs/fry surviving were you getting from each spawn?
Cheers!

Hey Flame Angel, I Bred them in Pairs, One Pair to 2ft tank, 2 Sponge filters and 2 Square caves per pair, plenty of nice smooth driftwood. Ive tried All sorts of caves and found in my experiences the male didnt kick the eggs out of a nice square cave. The tanks were always dark and i didnt disturb them, maybe only at feeding time. As a Guess id say 80 survived on average. Ill try and find some pics of the setup. Ive stoppped breeding them for a while and 2 Pairs now reside in an 8x2x2 South American tank and have not bred in there lol.

I am curious by your post mongy what does NLS stand for (food wise)

New life spectrum Pellets mate

 

[flame angel]

Okay thanks mate. great advice! Much appreciated.

One more question, which algae wafers did you use? Any experience with nutrafin max pleco logs or aquarian algae wafers?

 

[Brengun]

I use hikari algae wafers but I think they will eat any algae wafers really, they not fussy. None of my fish really liked the nutrafin ones yet other ppl say theirs do.
Best idea is always try a little packet and if they like it, get a bigger packet later.

 

[mongy]

Okay thanks mate. great advice! Much appreciated.

One more question, which algae wafers did you use? Any experience with nutrafin max pleco logs or aquarian algae wafers?

I use hikari or sera they loved either good luck and keep us all posted

 

[flame angel]

alright thanks guys. so there shouldn't be any concerns with quality of ingredients or anything with the common/big brands then.

will do! picking some up on Sunday

 

[flame angel]

Peps have been in for a week now. Off to a shaky start...having a bit of an ammonia problem. I used a new filter but the gravel had been in the tank for years, so was a bit surprised. Obviously couldn't cope with the sudden big poopers I guess. Anyway been doing daily water changes and just got around to getting some seachem stability - hopefully will hurry it along. Also bottle of prime will be arriving in a couple of days (having to use crappy API water conditioner for now...worrying me that the WC's are even doing anything). Fish seem ok (haven't been fed for a few days), but hard to tell due to their more nocturnal nature...

Added another air pump (2 x 190 lph), and managed to break one of the outlets of my other one :wb:. Still think I want more output though - planning on having at least 5 or 6 sponge filters running (in a few tanks), and want plenttyyyyy of oxygen.

Still got one unknown (+ 1 female, 2 males), still thinking he's a boy though. We'll see anyway.

 

[phear]

flame angel i thought ide let u know that airstones, sponge filters etc only release oxygen in the water when the bubble hits the surface of the water and bursts, you can get the same effect from a canister or powerfilter with it directing on the surface of the water creating a ripple.

im not saying dont add them as they are handy to have incase a pump fails etc or if u want to setup another tank quickly they are good so you dont need to cycle the tank, moving a large volume of water and the filter and gravel if you have it in the tank and feeding sparingly for a couple of weeks you can setup a new tank and not have any ammonia or nitrite spikes

 

[flame angel]

So this is still going fairly awful.

Can't get the f**** ammonia down - approaching 6 weeks!! Peps are all still kicking but there's been some times when they haven't looked good. pH is low so I'm guessing that's helping with the ammonia. But they also haven't eaten much for the past month (been feeding little to keep ammonia down but don't think they are too interested anyway).

I'm going to Melbourne tomorrow til Sunday (recommendations for fish stores to visit??) so they won't be getting any water changes or anything for 3-4 days, which worries me...

And to top it off I was just doing a water change and half way through filling back up I realised the tap was on HOT :wb:...temperature in the tank jumped about 6 degrees in a very short space of time...not what they needed just before I go away!!

Seachem stability seemed to do nothing (supposed to be a wonder product).
Been going through a lot of prime - from memory when using prime, the ammonia that shows up on test kits is still harmful, is that right? (compared to things like ammo-lock where the ammonia will show up but it's in its non-harmful form...or something like that).

A few things I can think of causing my problems perhaps...gravel too deep - it's a good 5cm - tank was planted before and never took any of the gravel out so now there's heaps, haven't got around to taking any out (dunno what I would even do with it).

Also when i'm filling the tank back up, the new water gets poured pretty much directly on a couple of the sponge filters - I'm thinking the prime hasn't completely removed the chlorine from the water at that stage and its killing the bacteria in those filters? or am I just being paranoid?

Thanks guys :thumbup:

 

[hinchles]

stability is just backteria to kick start the filter its not a wonder solution.
prime as a conditioner is pretty crappy too it only locks the chlorine etc in the water and slowly releases it over time it doesn't remove it like some others do.

getting your ph higher will help the ammonia settle/clear faster.

stir the gravel up give it a good vac out get all the old poop out and release any nastyness trapped inside. do regular 50% water changes and it should eventually stabalise.

 

[AusPleco]

I would say the problem is more then likely hidden in the gravel as well. If it hasnt been touched in a while you could have a gold mine of ammonia creating material in there.

If you wanted to try a scientific method of increasing your good bacteria you could try start smart complete claims to cycling tank in 24hours completely -shrugs- perhaps filter isnt cycled properly given it was new when it was added there hasnt properly established itself.

good luck

 

[flame angel]

I've gravel cleaned a thousand times - I was thinking more along the lines of it being too deep so there isn't any water movement or anything after a few centimeters down, so bacteria can't establish properly (I'm constantly turning it over with all the gravel vacuuming)...or something like that?