extreme trouble... need help!

[JordenD]

Ok so I have messed up somehow. My 3 Hillstream loaches, my butterfly plec, and my khuli loach all died. The only thing is that was different was I changed about 7 gallons of the water with new water that was primed. I don't understand what went wrong. I tested the water today and everything was perfect. The fish had big bellys and there was plenty of food. The temp is at 80 degrees f cause of my other fish in it. Please if anyone has an answer I would really appreciate the help. Thanks



Jorden

 

[Breamlegend]

How much prime did you use?

 

[bigbird]

HOW BIG IS YOUR TANK AND HOW NEW IS THE SET UP and was the tank cycled ? cheers jk

 

[jamous91]

also how hot or cold was the water you put in

 

[JordenD]

It's a 20 us gal tank. I kept it around 79 or 80 there wasn't much fluctuation in the temp. And no I didn't cycle it I poured it in and put the prime stuff in. It said makes tap water safe instantly. His I'm such a newbie.

 

[FF MkII]

Prime removes chorine and chloramine to make tap water safe, its doesnt instantly cycle a tank, you need to cycle your tank in order for beneficial bacteria to colonise filters and the substrate to help deal with toxins such as nitrite, nitrate and the biggest killer ammonia, seeing as you say there was plenty of food in the tank im guessing you had lethal ammounts of ammonia thus killing your fish.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sorry for your loss, I think FF MkII is right, this is probably a water quality issue, even though you wrote

I tested the water today and everything was perfect.

I'm not sure about the Kuhli Loach, but the other dead fish have a high oxygen requirement, 80of is also too warm for the Hill-stream Loaches, this is partially because warm water can hold less oxygen.

A few details would help. How big is the tank? what filtration do you have? how many other fish does it have in it? how long has it been set up? and do you have any plants?

cheers Darrel

 

[Mooo]

I can't believe you just tossed in water & fish without learning something first...If you are such a virgin & frankly naive, you need to do some homework before taking on something like a fish tank..Sorry but I have to be blunt,
I hope you go learn about the cycling process, your fish that you put in after your tank has cycled, will thank you.. :/

 

[Brengun]

Is this your tank?
http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263&page=11

Ok whats the pH of the water cause with all those tannins from the wood, I am guessing you might have had a ph crash which will kill the odd few fish.

The temperature is too high on 80F. Turn it down to about 76 or so.

Do you have a test kit for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?

If it is a new tank, only a week or two old you may be having an ammonia spike or nitrite spike. If its a much older tank, you may need to do a gravel vac to combat high nitrates.

Anyway if it is any of these the fish sound like they were just barely coping and the water change stirred all the nasties up and wreaked havoc.

Don't worry, we've all done it before as learners. You water supply isnt underground bore water is it? That stuffs nasty on fish with way too many minerals in it.

I really think you need to do several smaller water changes, like 10% daily until your tank settles. Are you using a water conditioner like Seachem Prime? If you are, dose the whole tank with it as it will help soothe the fishes gills from any ammonia , nitrite and nitrate problems and increase their slime coat to protect them. Add back the water change water fairly slowly a bit at a time and have it conditioned in the bucket before you go adding it to the tank.

Another great little product is Seachem stability to add good bacteria to a cycling tank and seachem purigen in a bag to take those tannins out of the water.

Go easy on the fish food for the moment, they wont starve to death and too much feeding just makes the water quality worse. Good luck oh and btw :welcome:

 

[jessfish]

I can't believe you just tossed in water & fish without learning something first...If you are such a virgin & frankly naive, you need to do some homework before taking on something like a fish tank..Sorry but I have to be blunt,
I hope you go learn about the cycling process, your fish that you put in after your tank has cycled, will thank you.. :/

Thats not blunt its just rude.
Lots of people make mistakes when they start out, everyone else here is trying to help a newbie learn from a mistake rather than get angry with a complete stranger.

 

[RobHarrison]

Hey Jorden, Hope you get your tank sorted and then to enjoy the delights of fish keeping. It is hard when first setting a tank up as most fish shops are only to happy to sell a tank and fish on the same day, they care more for a sale then the tank being properly set up, but its nice to see that you came across plecoplanet and have been honest and askd for help and advice, got to commend you on that. Hope the peoples previous posts help you maintain your tank.

Rob

 

[foti]

Nothing from his posts tells me that his tank wasnt cycled if im wrong please point it out he said that the water he added wasnt cycled could he ment that it wasnt aged?

if he has had this tank running for 6 months plus with out doing gravel cleans and then poured in the water full blast all the toxens in the gravel would of mixed in with the water and cause ammonia poison that would of killed all the fish but by the next day the water would of settled and so would the level of the ammonia!

iv seen this before as alot of people dont clean there thick bed of substrae to keep high amounts of bacteria in there tanks

but if it gets tost around it causes all sorts of problems such as burns from the amonia to death .

we need to find out more about this tank before we can help you in finding the problem!

as for Mooo im sure you meant it in the nicest way posible as we all have those days were things bother us lol but i just dont think this guy went out and bought $1k worth of fish and gear and hoped for the best !

 

[Mooo]

Thats not blunt its just rude.
Lots of people make mistakes when they start out, everyone else here is trying to help a newbie learn from a mistake rather than get angry with a complete stranger.

I'm sorry you feel that I was rude..I have been seeing so much of this of late, Yes I could have been kinder, I just get a little fed up is all, Sorry if I offended anyone..:cry: You are right..

 

[jessfish]

I'm sorry you feel that I was rude..I have been seeing so much of this of late, Yes I could have been kinder, I just get a little fed up is all, Sorry if I offended anyone..:cry: You are right..

We all have sh*it days LOL!

i was in same situation where i bought a tank & 2 goldfish in same day - the guy sold me a bottle of "cycle" that i was told would instantly make the tank fine for fish...goldfish are hardy & one is still alive a yr later & thriving (the other one was attacked & killed by a gourami:cry

I was just reading through the post again, I hope Jordan is still around...was the tank cycled? & like Foti mentioned was it just the water that was 'new'?
possible ammonia poisoning sounds like a possibility?

 

[JordenD]

as of right now my fish are in a 29gal that has been set up and cycling for a month now. it is currently at 76f.

in the 20gal i tested the ph and the nitrates, the ph is neutral and the nitrates came out 0, the tank was set up january 1st and was cycled for 2 weeks before i started adding fish. i have never cleaned the gravel in it, but i will start now that i know it could have caused the crash. i had the tank at 80f because thats what the guy at the fish store told me to do.

im cleaning out the tank completely now, new gravel, im going to boil the drift wood and make sure it doesnt fill the water with tannins again, im going to put more plants in it and i have bought a new filter for it. as for right now the tank is empty i havent started yet. so imput on how i should do this right would help.

as for mooo's post, i have no hard feelings about it, we all have our bad days that things spark. it just so happens my post sparked her at that point in time, i understand. there for i have no anger or any negitive feelings towards her.

so lets start with the basics. i have clean empty tank, i want it set up for 5 plecos which are as follows. a albino bn, a longfin bn, a bn, a clown plec, and a common plec. i also will need plants and drift wood. suggestions please.

thanks.

 

[bigbird]

Just as a small tip, I always have a small sponge filter running in one of my tanks all the time. This has in my view 3 effects. 1 It also helps clean the tank where it is in, accumulating bacteria etc. 2. It can be used for an emergency tank or to start cycling a new tank. 3. It can be moved into a new tank for fry etc as it has microorganisms on it on which they can feed.
You now have a new tank. I would put down silica sand as substrate, set up with heater, airstone and filter, with driftwood, caves etc. Plants Java fern or anubius are fine. Put in your water conditioner and some cycle started and let it run for 14days. Do a 10% water change every 4 days. I also add some tiny amount of fish food every 3days, in order for the cycle to commence. If you have the money, before you set this tank up, put a sponge filter in one of your tanks that you already have. After 10days transfer this to this new tank. After 14days, add one or two fish only, if you have diters in the other tanks use them. then only after 21days add your new Ls . It is a waiting game, but worth it. Hope this helps cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[jessfish]

starting new...with the driftwood did u hear that boiling will take the tannins out faster?!
I always soak my driftwood & rinse the water...but this takes days - if boiling works im going to do that next time!!
let me know

i know this is a pleco forum but im still learning about plecos & which can live together...i've heard that common plecos will bug plecos that are similar looking or size to them...but im sure you're checking all this out too
& im sure u know the common's get BIG...i got mine at 2.5in a yr ago he's closing in on 8.5in!! i've heard their growth slows after the 1st yr...but they will still outgrow that tank - i guess ur like me & are plannig/saving for a bigger tank LOL
if u need advice about the common start with a real small one

 

[bigbird]

Hi, just so you know some tannins are actually good for the system. It is very rare that tannins cause the death of a fish etc. like all items that you introduce to an aquarium, make sure you quarantine these first and drift wood is the same. What I do is get a large 60gallon drum, fill with water and add conditioner, then add all driftwood, stones etc into this drum. Do weekly water changes and after 2 weeks the wood has sunk and all is good to use.
With boiling driftwood you need a large pot and also it is very dangerous. In my view the benefit of having driftwood in the drums, is it also then accumulates matter on the wood itself like micro organisms and algae, all benefitial for the fish. havea good one...cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[JordenD]

lol the plecos i have listed are the ones i have now. the common was about 2in when i got him but ive had him before i had this 20gal. now he is about 4 in. the albino, longfin, and clown are about 3in and the other bn is about the size of the common. none of them have ever picked on each other or anyone else. but that doesnt mean they wont. and i heard that boiling the drift wood for an hour takes more of the tannins out. is that true more experienced people?

 

[foti]

sarting up is a waiting game!

its all about alowing time for the growth of bacteria to develope to be able to brake down the waiste which is produced from the fish you add!

the catch 22 is you need to feed the bacteria to get it to grow "start a big spike" which is why Bigbird said throw in food the bacteria will develope to brake it down

i would suggest if you a running a canister filter ! you should seed it with bacteria

so set up the tank filter heater gravel of your choice but if you go sand cilica is a great option add your water treated!(prime or what ever you use) try buy some small fish like guppies they poo alot and are very hardy

i found cycling with guppies the easyest as your throwing in food to cycle and feed them they will breed / grow which will alow the seeded bacteria in your filter to grow

the fish should only be added after the first spike setles

and yes you should always have a second filter running

(how to seed a filter)
find a friend or someone on here who is close to you and ask them to give you some of the "matrix"(its the little rock inside your filter it has crators which hold the good bacteria needed to brake down amonia/nitrate/nitirite) from there filter just add it into your filter and your good to go!

remember you need to feed the bacteria or else itwill not grow and it will spike once you put your plecs which are not so hardy to amonia/nitrate/nitirite

also remember setting up a tank is the most fun time as its the waiting game you can choose all diferent types of fish you want to add (searching so on) as after its set up its all about taking care of the water !!!!