Fry issues

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jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
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Sydney
Hey guys,

Might well be my first post but I am a long time forum scavenger.
I searched and found some stuff but I am looking for some direct info for my fry.

I have about 50+ peppermint fry currently sitting in a diy fry saver I have in my 4 foot tank. The problem I am having is that some of these fry seem to eat like pigs and be growing thick and fast, however others will just wither away and seemingly starve themselves to death?
I really don't understand why though?

My method was to take cave and dad, place them into the fry saver until they are free swimming. Perhaps I pulled him too early and they never learnt how to eat? Is this a thing?

Feeding veg everyday. Carrot, squash, broccoli, zucchini and cucumber and the eating ones take to them all with ease.
Why would some just not eat. They just end up killing themselves, however I think I may be at fault still.

Any help is greatly appreciated,
Thanks in advance.
Jamo
 
Bigjohnnofish

Bigjohnnofish

Global Moderators
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Apr 15, 2010
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Perth, Western Australia
i found some psirs/colonies of b/n more productive than others in producing hardy fry that survive... have had 150-200+ peps hatch from one colony in a single spawn and nearly always had close on 100% survival... other colony i had always lost 10-20%... sometimes its not the owners fault other than not choosing good breeding stock... if you are consistantly losing same percentage of fry each time then this could be the reason...

i found better survival rates when left in the main tank with the adults... as long as there is food they can graze on 24/7 then it shouldnt be a problem...
 
J

jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
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Sydney
Thanks Johnno!
Okay so perhaps need a better breeding pair, but for now definitely happy with my fry, eventually may need to introduce another female perhaps!
Thanks everyone!
 
Bigjohnnofish

Bigjohnnofish

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Apr 15, 2010
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sometimes better foods for the adults can increase fry strength also...
usually first time spawns are weaker and as adults gain size they get stronger too....
large 007 adults have eggs just shy of being the size of a pea... but smaller adults eggs are close to b/n sized eggs... bigger eggs produce bigger fry which in turn means they have bigger mouths and stomachs and grow quicker...leading to stronger fry....
there are a lot of factors effecting fry survival rates - my first choice of cause is water quality/parameters but if your certain thats not the problem then it may just be the genetics of the fish...
 
J

jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
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Sydney
So the deaths just keep coming, some are thriving and growing thick and fast, others just wilt away. I've checked my water again and parameters are
0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, <5 nitrate, and ph 6.6ish.
I am keeping food available at all times and keeping variety as well.
Perhaps it is a weak brood but this isn't the first clutch they have had.
If the genetics are the problem is it common for the fry to just not make it passed that danger period of the first few weeks?
Maybe it's time for some new blood!
 
Bigjohnnofish

Bigjohnnofish

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Apr 15, 2010
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Perth, Western Australia
6.6 is low ph - what is your kh level like ??? with such soft water there may be inadequate minerals in the water for good fry development....

if its a genetic thing you'll find fry will die off no matter what you do.... and usually in the same pattern....

easy fix to try - bring in a new unrelated male and see if your pattern of fry deaths cease....

a lot of things are trial and error when breeding fish... and sometimes different things work for different people... so find what works for you and stick to it...
 
J

jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
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Sydney
Ok sounds good! Might try boost the kh, got the stuff already so I can give tht a go.
Other yea I guess it could be time to try a new male.

I think I may need to split them up first between other tanks so I know who is breeding or something as I currently have about 15 all in the tank, some are grow up fry some aren't. So it's a bit confusing to see who is breeding
 
Bigjohnnofish

Bigjohnnofish

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Apr 15, 2010
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boost your kh up slowly... as it does up ph at same time.... so slow and steady and do it over a few days....

wait till you see the male trapping female then its a good chance they are your breeders...
 
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TeamSherman

Member
Jun 8, 2015
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Sydney
I feed my 80+ fry with crushed tropical flake and the mini Hikari Algea wafers twice daily. Out of the 80+ fry over 2.5 months I've only lost 4 fry and I put that down to either them being runts of the egg batches or starving hence why I'm feeding twice daily.

I keep mine in one of the plastic small fish tanks that come with the mesh lids but I have cut sections out on all 4 sides and have melted on bits of Aluminium mesh for water flow and I have an airstone in there next to one of the mesh sides to help draw in fresher water. This whole tank is attached to the side of the main tank with the adult colony.

If you are keen to swap some fry for my fry to get new bloodlines for future breeding let me know as I'm also in Sydney.
 
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TeamSherman

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Jun 8, 2015
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Sydney
Also, how often are you changing water and what sort of water are you using?

Ive found my fry are pretty sensitive to new water unless I've aged the water for a few days in a large bin with foam filter agitating the water and it's also had Prime added in when I fill it up.

Also, how big is the adults tank? What filtration method are you using on it?
 
J

jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
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Sydney
Well I'm going to re vamp my fry saver, worried it was causing issues without enough water movement.
I am running a canister filter, an internal filter and a separate sponge filter for the frysaver, it also will have an airstone dropped in.

Water changes once weekly, around 25% to keep them nitrates down.
I don't age my water in barrels although I have always wanted to, I just use average water ager/dechlorinator. Does everyone suggest prime?

I've made vegetables available to them at all hours, I worry that too much algae wafer in their systems will cause bloat. But I guess if they are eating it's better than nothing. I will feed more flake on this next batch.

Had almost no success with the last batch, so next batch I'll be trying to saver some more with these changes. Thanks again everyone!!!
 
J

jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
20
0
1
Sydney
New fry

Right, new batch out and about now, I think maybe about 5 days since hatched and the egg sac has nearly been absorbed. I am also thinking that I have two separate batches of eggs hatching as there is great variation between the egg sac being absorbed in some of the fry.

They have been relocated from main tank with father and cave when they were eggs, process was done to make the least issues and male didn't worry for a second so I am happy about that. I made a big water change in the fry tank moving the main tank water across.

I have had a few deaths already. Because I've placed gravel at the base of this tank I am actually thinking it is the culprit. I saw two dead with their sac missing. I think thy perhaps cut it? Ideas?
I know I should have bare bottom but I've read both good and bad things about this. Good, easy to clean, bad the bacteria that grows on it may kill fry? Shine any light if you could.

I have a large sponge filter in this tank, a HOB with a sponge attached (no fry getting sucked up that), I also have a diffuser. I am now treating water with prime and doing daily changes. Nitrates are below 5 ammonia and nitrite at zero. So things seem promising.

I guess what I should ask right now is should I push the gravel all over I one side or maybe removed altogether?
Any advice guys, greatly appreciated!!!

Cheers,
Jamo
 
J

jamo33

Member
Apr 22, 2015
20
0
1
Sydney
Update

Hey guys,

If anyone is watching this I wanted to say that my fry have been developing amazingly. In the weeks they have been alive they have grown at what i thought to be an impossible rate! some at the 2cm mark now and others not far behind. They are growing fat bodies and i believe i have only had around 5 loses, not including the ones i had to cull.

For some reason a few just don't develop. Their pelvic fins (don't know if thats the name, but their rear fins behind the pectorals) don't develop or even appear at any point. Commonly in these fry they never show any inclination to eat or even move, just cling to the glass until they are nothing and eventually dead. Is this just failure to thrive? or once again perhaps an issue with the genetics?
Side note this was a much much smaller batch of fry for some reason, 70 down to 40? Any comments?

Thats my update, very excited to grow these little ones up and im happy that the few changes i have made seem to be making all the difference! Which i owe to all of you guys so thank you so much!

Cheers,

Jamo

P.s. Pics to come
 
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