L104 spawn not surviving

[Brengun]

I have a pair of L104 who have spawned a few times before but only a couple fry ever survive if I am lucky.

I have tried frysaving but still they die. Left in the main tank is the only time I may get one or two to survive in the woodwork.

It has something to do with their navels or something. Some absorb the sac but die shortly after eating and others just don't seem to absorb it at all and die anyway.

I thought maybe its just pollution in the tank from the extra population and food but I have L10a red lizard fry this time, born at the exact same time and I still have those whereas the L104 fry have all died.

Now there are also breeding and juvenile lanceolotta royal whiptails in this 4ft tank and I did notice the young royals turning the dead bodies of the L104 fry over and eating them.

I watched for hours but never actually saw the royals kill a live L104 fry, only worry the dead fry bodies.

Is it possible they did flip over the fry and kill them?
I put a good fry in the frysaver with the tiny L10a fry and it died as well.

Could this pair of L104 parents be very closely related and some sort of inbreeding is turning out inferior fry which look fine on the outside but have some sort of problems on the inside.

Is it just that L104 fry are finicky and hard to raise? I have had some last a week to no sacs and still they die. :wb:

 

[foti]

thats no good it sucks when this occures
i could only give you my oppinon on what is the matter but it will be up to you to figure it all out. sorry about you lossing all those batches,

well i would say relation could be a problem, but not the reson for deaths for if it was the case the parants that you have would be deformed! IMO

well if you are getting dead fish this could olter the water and it could cause more deaths but prohaps your wiptails are more capable of handeling it IMO

I would say they need there own enviroment get your hands on a tank with good filtration and relocate the parants and IMO this should be all that is needed

once again this is only my oppinon on the matter good enviroment good food thats all you can do

they must be happy to of been producing fry maybe it is the wiptail or it could just be you are doing big WC's that are shocking the little guys what ever is the reson i would say put them on there own

p.s. remove dead fish straight way plus feed the fry 3 times a day!

 

[Irene0100]

oh dear, what a shame.
yes I would try and get a separate tank for them if you can.
otherwise I can only think w/c w/c w/c and keep hoovering poo, make sure there are sufficient minerals on the w/c so not deficient in anything important.

 

[Breamlegend]

That is a mystery and may be some sort of genetic problem. It may be some form of bacteria that is only affecting the 104 fry.
On a side note I do believe sub adults will eat very small fry when they are alive. I have a colony of abn in a divided 3 foot tank Some fry escaped to one side where there are no sub adults/ adults. One night I decided not to feed the fish. The next day I noticed most of the tiny fry around 1cm were missing but the ones on the other side were fine. It seems odd because they are all in the same water so if it was a water quality issue they should all be dead. (and they cant get into the filter intake)

 

[Brengun]

Definitely not water quality problem. Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5 and that was before the water change today.

 

[Bigjohnnofish]

mmm

hey bren i have had similar problems with 397's.....

i think its a buildup of anerobic bacteria in the cave while the fry have just hatched and are wrigglers they are pretty vulnerable to any water problem or bacteria related problems...

i get much more success if i wait till the eggs start hatching up... then raid the cave and put them in an egg tumbler with copius amounts of air powering water through the tumbler....

i think your fry are damaged before they leave the cave and there isnt a darn thing you can do to fix them up...

perhaps try angling your caves towards a powerhead... or increasing your O2 and CO2 exchange at the waters surface by adding more movement...

 

[Brengun]

That makes a lotta sense Johnno. Will add more caves in different positions and see what happens. Filters are 1000lph canister and a otto 800lph powerfilter so there is plenty of movement in the tank.

Oh just thought of something. I covered the canister intake with a sponge and packed the powerfilter cups with filterwool to stop fry getting sucked up in there. I wonder if that made a difference? The filters still have plenty of water movement but that could have done something to the fry.

Next time they are getting reefed out into a frysaver as soon as I spot them.

 

[Brengun]

That makes a lotta sense Johnno. Will add more caves in different positions and see what happens. Filters are 1000lph canister and a otto 800lph powerfilter so there is plenty of movement in the tank.

Oh just thought of something. I covered the canister intake with a sponge and packed the powerfilter cups with filterwool to stop fry getting sucked up in there. I wonder if that made a difference? The filters still have plenty of water movement but that could have done something to the fry.

Next time they are getting reefed out into a frysaver as soon as I spot them.

 

[DJ-don]

i was thinking,

i have a friend who really knows his plecos. what he does is actually get driftwood dust and feeds it too bn fry hours after they hatch. the dust really needs to be fine btw
and he says because its so fine, the fish literally suck the dust in and because wood is usually known for helping the gut of panaques or bns (or a theory) he actually gets a high success rate

i say worth trying bren

 

[Brengun]

I was thinking about doing that Don. I could just get a drill onto dw and keep all the dust and stuff if I do it without pushing too much and making big shavings.

 

[Bigjohnnofish]

i was thinking,

i have a friend who really knows his plecos. what he does is actually get driftwood dust and feeds it too bn fry hours after they hatch. the dust really needs to be fine btw
and he says because its so fine, the fish literally suck the dust in and because wood is usually known for helping the gut of panaques or bns (or a theory) he actually gets a high success rate

i say worth trying bren

thats an awful lot of effort for b/n....

i keep b/n in undergravel filtered tanks.... and i very rarely lose any fry - ever!!!!
except when i muck up!!! doesnt happen very often but its happened a couple times

 

[DJ-don]

thats an awful lot of effort for b/n....

i keep b/n in undergravel filtered tanks.... and i very rarely lose any fry - ever!!!!
except when i muck up!!! doesnt happen very often but its happened a couple times

well this guy was actually one of the first people in NSW to breed the common bn in the early days. but he does this with his peppermints too. and the funny thing is, he only ever uses UGF's for all his tanks

sorry to hijack thread bren but the wood you should try using is malaysian driftwood or indonesian bog wood. these are the woods he uses. you should be able to find these in LFS

 

[lcrazy]

You are probably well aware of the temperature aspect of fry raising as well Bren, I also agree with Johno (its more than likely bacteria), the higher the water temp the less dissolved oxygen in the water, I keep my fry tanks at 25 degrees and 2 extra sponge fillters, seems to work.
HTH

 

[Brengun]

I have sold off a heap of the royal juvis now leaving only about two. Would you believe I caught 24 of them out? Maybe any new clown fry will have half a chance now.