L333 Bloating - Anyone knows the reason

[tankmate]

I have 6 x L333 babies (around 3cm) & 1 x 6cm died since last week. All of them have big bellys, i would assume it is - bloating.

They are kept in two different tanks. All the rest (other L numbers L397, L002, L134, L201) looks perfect and eating.

I am not too sure why bloating only happen to my L333.

They have been feeding with shrimp pellets all the time and sometime peas/algae wafer. It seems like L333 doesn't like vegies at all. I think the bloating would have caused by too much protein in their diet. Am i right?

I don't think water condition is an issue, since all the rest looks perfect to me.

Any suggestions?

 

[Lornek8]

How long have you had the L333?
Did you get them all at the same time & from the same place?

Hypancistrus in general eat a larger proportion of animal protiens than most other plecs. The amount of veggies they eat can vary but its usually a bit less than what you could expect to see from many other plecs. Bloating isn't usually something you see with Hypans so it leads me to speculate, if they were new additions, if they didn't bring something in with them.

 

[foti]

well said Lornek8 i would also sugest you stop feeding for a day or two while treatment or identification of cause

i would also sugest a picture of the 333's

 

[tankmate]

Sorry forgot to mention. They came from my breeding pair of L333.

6cm one is from 2nd batch. And the ones around 3cm are 3rd batch.

There were no new additions. They just bloated one day and possibly die after 3 days. And i have thought they might have eaten too much to have that big belly.

Any clues?

A friend of mine just told me it might be a case of breeding in the same blood line. For the 6cm one, he is just normal and healthy for the past year, no signs at all of sickness.

 

[Lornek8]

Anything new care wise or water wise?
Any new foods?

 

[Irene0100]

tell us more about where you keep them, what substrate do youhave?
could be a bacterial infection?

 

[Rabbit]

Was the plec in the same tank as the other plecs you stated? is it possibly dominance, maturity or breeding behavior leading to fights with other plecs?. Seems funny it was the larger of the lot.

 

[Rush2112]

Hi
I have experienced the exact same situation with my new L66 babies. I'm at a loss as to what is causing them to bloat. Shortly after I removed a batch from the cave and put them in a fry saver they started getting swelled bellies and died.

 

[foti]

sorry to hear about your 66
i know with bn they should eat there perants poo and this starts of there bacteria in there digestive system ?
could it be the diet you chose for them to much for a fry just off the sack ?

 

[Rabbit]

i know with bn they should eat there perants poo and this starts of there bacteria in there digestive system ?

Do you have a link?

Are they kept in a Bare Bottom tank?

 

[foti]

it was in pf i would say it had been brought up every time one asked if they should remove fry !

il try find something tho

 

[Rush2112]

The parents are in a bare bottom tank. The fry were put in a fry saver when they still had a bit of an egg sac. I didn't feed them anything. I never heard anything about eating the parents poo. If this was the case how to explain the times I have taken out tiny wigglers immeddiately after hatching and they survived.

 

[foti]

dont get mistaken of cause they will servive but you need to be more careful with there diet .

if im wrong then im wrong but bacteria must be in everyones stomic if you dont have the bacteria in your own stomic you have trubles bracking down foods you cant expect fry any fry to just start eating any foods without the chance of complecations.

even if it is not proven with studies "might be dont know" it makes sence to me!

everyone can argue but you asked a question that you dont have an answer for i gave you one that makes sence "caution on feeding if fry are removed young there bactirea in there digestive systems is not as what it would of been if with parents for i know that bn fry eat parent poo to kick start theres!"

 

[Rabbit]

Iv never read anything of the sort and wouldn't trust the idea, iv raised many fry from eggs with the first feeding provided being highly protein.

If the fry are raised in a bare bottom environment there is the chance they are taking in the slime/ bacteria/ grime etc from the floor of the confinement in which case many of hobbyist have reported bloating and death. Im sure someone else could elaborate more on the subject, if this be the case.

 

[Rush2112]

Hi foti

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be critical or appear to doubt your observations. In fact I really appreciated your assistance. It's just frustrating losing fish after the excitement of seeing them spawn and wondering why.
Thank you.
Gino

 

[Irene0100]

the only suggestion i have is to not feed exclusivley shrimp pellets , give them crushed flakes and squashed peas and anything else you have eg crushed tetra prima. feed small feed several times a day.
also keep water tip top, so w/c every day if poss.

 

[foti]

hi rush dont aplogise nothing to be sorry for and as for the slime film what eva the bacteria is, yes it has been said by many that it caused death but not proven! bacteria on glass bottom tanks is the same as bacteria on glass sides and the same bacteria ontop of your substrate it your tanks! i would say that the myth of bacteria from when i first started keeping fish in bare bottom tanks worried me i have been asking everyone that is reputable in the the hobby or breeder which all have said that its not true

sorry guys everyone is going to argue "but but but" its something that is not true there i said it!

 

[Rabbit]

Sorry Foti but i disagree, i rarely witnessed my loricariidae fry on the sides of there confinment, not too monetion that yes the bacteria is found on almost all surfaces within the aquarium (thus if i relied soley on that it would be a short lived fiction) but the filth etc was not nor are the fry confined to the sides of the aquarium where this could even come close to proving your statment. I would very much like to hear from the "reputable" people that stated this to you as many of the intelligent members will tell you otherwise.
Im sorry if you find my comments confronting but im mearly trying to findfact from fiction.
The fact of bacteria consumption isnt so much the problem as the rest of the filth the fry remain suspended in during such weak stages of life, this is more so common sense than anything.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I'd like a substrate because it does contain bacteria. There are basically 2 routes you can use:

• The ultra-clean route, where the aim is to reduce the bacterial colonies to a minimum and rely on water changes rather than biological filtration. You can think of this as the hospital route where if things are kept extremely clean "aseptic" it works really well but as soon as that peak of cleanliness is passed, all sorts of problems with E. Coli and Clostridium difficile etc. occur. This is also the reason that you often get ill after a course of antibiotics, they have killed the micro-flora in your gut (as well as healing your septic wound, sore throat etc.) and the empty niches in your digestive system can be re-colonised by all sorts of opportunistic bacteria before your normal "healthy" gut bacteria re-establish themselves.

or

• You can go down the biological route where you aim to maximise biological filtration. The filter, plants, wood and other surfaces in the aquarium offer a potential home to the community of aerobic bacterial that metabolize ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate. The uppermost surfaces of the substrate are a good location for these bacteria, because the nitrification process uses a lot of oxygen. CUP suggested that a coarse sand and fine gravel provides an optimal substrate, and that it doesn't have to be a thick layer, and that is good enough for me.
  
  This approach doesn't mean lack of cleanliness, if you can remove organic waste it won't utilise oxygen. The nitrifiers compete poorly for oxygen with the community of bacteria that are breaking down the organic matter, the ones responsible for much of the Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD). A heavy load of organic materials being degraded in your system (for example from protein or sugar rich foods) inhibits the nitrifiers by competing with them for oxygen. Unless you have plants nitrates will also build up, so you need to keep your water changes up as well.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Jon Tarn's = "Cup" article is at http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=758.

7) Substrate. A fine layer of pea gravel is great. It greatly increases surface area for nitrification traps food for consumption in those high gradient tanks (even though I told you current doesn't matter. for shame.), gives young fry and probably your plecs a sense of security, and looks better than a bare bottom. As long as the substrate is properly maintained, it is not any more difficult to clean than a bare bottom. I know there are die hards that like this kind of thing. Suck it, guys.

We also had a thread about whether Plecs are picking up bacteria from their parents following the publication of Dr Donovan German's work on Panaque digestion. http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19801 his answer was that they almost certainly aren't.

Rather than harbouring an endosymbiotic community, they let the microbes in the environment do the work for them. This may be a function of living in an aquatic environment.

cheers Darrel