Need Some Help With L66 Fry

Waterrat

New Member
Apr 25, 2012
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Chicago, IL
Greetings,

I'm new to this forum, so I apologize if this has already been asked and answered before. I have been breeding fish for over 45 years (mostly South American Cichlids) and this is my first experience with trying to breed Plecos.

A fellow breeder was moving and had to get rid of all of his fish. I bought a group of eight L66 King Tiger Plecos. They are housed in a bare-bottom 33 gallon long tank (48"x12"x12"). In contains a large amount of slate, 8 terra-cotta breeding tubes, and 2 large pieces of driftwood. Water temp. is maintained at 83 degrees (F) the water hardness is 188 (TDS Meter) and the pH is 7.2-7.6). The tank is kept pretty dark; the back is painted, the top is covered with a piece of styrofoam, and the tank only receives indirect lighting from the rest of the fish room. There are 2 large sponge filters in the tank; one is air powered and the other is attached to a power head to provide lots of current.

Anyway, after several months went by, one pair finally spawned. The dad performed his duties with extreme diligence, and about 14 days after spawning, the first of about 14 fry emerged from the cave. The problem is that one by one, they started dying off. I'm not sure they were eating at all. For food, I had finely ground flake food, small Spectrum Pellets, and added newly hatched brine shrimp 3 times a day. By the end of the first week, all 14 had died.

Two weeks later, the pair spawned again. This time, on day 13, I moved the cave, male, fry, and all, into a 2 1/2 gallon bare-bottom aquarium. Again, water temp 83 degrees, and a well-seasoned sponge filter, and I'm doing a 50% water change every day to make sure uneaten food doesn't spoil. The next day, the fry began to emerge from the cave. When all the fry had left, I moved the male and cave back into the breeding tank, leaving just the fry. Again, I have been feeding them a small amount of finely crushed flake food and live, newly hatched brine shrimp, but I'm having the same result. The fry began coming out last Friday, and this morning, there are only two left alive.

As I said, I'm new to Plecos, so I'm sure it's something I must be (or not be) doing. The pair spawned again last night, and I don't want to be responsible for killing these guys as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mark
 

Irene0100

UK Support Team
May 14, 2009
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Norfolk, UK
oh dear, what a pity,
I can offer a few ideas that may help...
well I would suggest only 20% w/c a day and make sure new water is about same temp as old. this will reduce shock to young.
Also if poss to lower ph to 6.5, (try adding blackwater extract -only a little, and/or indian almond leaves, or some peat and bog wood maybe).
do you clean the bare bottom? or have snails to help clean film off the glass?
on the dead young -do they have hollow or full bellies?
also try lowering temp to 81 degrees (cooler water holds more oxygen) and make sure water inlet is ruffling the water surface to encourage oxygen absorption. good luck
 

Brengun

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Apr 22, 2009
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If its a big ask to drop ph to 6.5, 6.9 would be pretty great too. Even up to 7.2 isn't just too bad but 7.6 is not.

Can you add in an adjustable airstone to the little tank or if its big enough add also a little sponge filter? The movement of the water not only adds oxygen but stirs the food around and gets the fry aware that its there. Some fry are a little dumb first go at recognising food is edible.

Check the meaty content of the flake you are using. Could be its a little high in protein maybe for first bites? I use Sera flora vege flake first up and a little bit of crushed hikari algae wafer. The Hikari seems to be just meaty enough for them without going too overboard in the first few weeks.

Do you have any say trumpet snails? Those are great for cleaning off that film of uneaten yucky food which can get stuck in the tank. I usually use cherry shrimp myself and they do quite a good job too.

They are L066 and not known for being picky with the foods so just add a bit of food sparingly since their bellies are really tiny to start with.

Once a day, turn that airstone up high for a couple seconds to dislodge the old uneaten food. It makes a real mess but when you turn the airstone down, hopefully the rubbish will settle in the one spot. I use a little airline syphon to remove that stuff and if you smell it, you will be glad you removed it as it can pong like something shocking.

Once you got it a lot nicer place to live in, add your little bit of food again.

Another thing I like to do is keep a few little shards of driftwood in the parent tank so its got bacteria and little micro-organisms on it and move that to the fry saver or baby tank.
They will instinctively want to hide under it so they are less stressed and at night they should come out and use their little sucker mouths to clean the wood off.

Fins crossed you get third time lucky and raise all the fry next time. :)
 

cichlid fry

Member
Jan 11, 2012
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Brisbane
feeding 66's

Hi Mark,
although I have not personally bred the 66's, I do feed my baby plecos a fair bit of newly hatched artemia, however, to get it to them , I freeze them in ice cube trays and use one each day. That way they sink to teh bottom, using a syringe or baster you can direct them under the piece of wood as previously mentioned.
Hope this goes some way to helping.
cheers
 

Bigjohnnofish

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Apr 15, 2010
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i dont think ph is an issue... mine have spawned in 7-7.6ph with no worries... food wise i go for sera micron first few days and then some frozen baby brine
very rarely lose any 066 fry...
 

Joby

Retired Staff
Aug 9, 2009
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Some good information already. I had a major issue with my first L134 fry, I lost a lot of fry which was heartbreaking :cry: You want some movement in the tank, lots of little frequent feedings and remove the old food fairly quickly to avoid it going nasty. I like to use a turkey baster so I'm only taking out minimal water. I also use a kids paint brush to dust the inside of the fry saver I use twice a day to avoid any build ups as well. I have spawned fish in ph of 8.5 before with no real issue to the fry, just they found it difficult breaking out of the eggs in the first place so I have now gone the RO/HMA route with fantastic results :)

I really hope you get the right combination with this next spawn :thumbup:
 

Waterrat

New Member
Apr 25, 2012
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Chicago, IL
I would like to thank everyone for your quick and thorough response to by problem. Just a couple of additional points. I do have a well-seasoned sponge filter in the small tank with a strong air flow to create good turbulence. I failed to mention earlier that there are a few Cherry Shrimp that "hitch hiked" into the tank, but next time I will add snails as several of you recommended. I will also add the driftwood when I removed the male and the cave. This should help provide a place to hide, as well as a food source (hopefully). I do siphon the crud (uneaten food) off the bottom of the tank at least twice a day, but I will back off the crushed flake food and add a piece of algae wafer to the tank in addition to the brine shrimp. Since it's a small tank, when I add the newly hatched brine shrimp, the shrimp soon get tired and settle to the bottom of the tank where they swim around, well within the reach of the little guys on the bottom.

In answer to another of the questions posed, the fry appear to have full stomachs, almost as if they haven't fully absorbed the yolk sack. To date, I have never seen one of them appear as if they were eating or grazing on anything in the tank.

Thanks again for everyone's advice. Hopefully, I will figure this out before loosing another spawn, but if anyone can think of anything else, please keep the information coming!

Mark
 

Lornek8

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Apr 21, 2009
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I do siphon the crud (uneaten food) off the bottom of the tank at least twice a day, but I will back off the crushed flake food and add a piece of algae wafer to the tank in addition to the brine shrimp.
In answer to another of the questions posed, the fry appear to have full stomachs, almost as if they haven't fully absorbed the yolk sack. To date, I have never seen one of them appear as if they were eating or grazing on anything in the tank.

Not only do you need to siphon the bottom but actually scrub the bottom. Food & waste build-up creates a biofilm to form on the tank bottom (walls & hard decor as well). Plecs (and especailly fry) being close to or on the tank bottom all the time can get internal bacterial infections due to the biofilm build-up. Its a common reason for fry loss which can often show bloating.
 

Ike

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Nov 9, 2011
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Hey Mark,

I've lost fry before because they didn't get enough food, have you ever heard of Repashy gel food?

I'm using soilent green right now with ancistrus fry and they are loving it. They boast faster fry growth, which I'm testing right now, but it might be worth a shot to look into.

-Ike
 

Waterrat

New Member
Apr 25, 2012
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Chicago, IL
Again, thanks to everyone for your advice. The pair have spawned again, and he male is now guarding the eggs. They're not due to be free-swimming until a week from this Friday, so I'll try to take into account all of the advice you have provided, especially the scrubbing of the tank. I was not aware of the bio-film and bacterial infection issues. Hopefully, we'll get it right before we loose any more fry!

Mark
 

Waterrat

New Member
Apr 25, 2012
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Chicago, IL
Thanks to everyone for the great information. Being new to spawning Plecos, this is completely different than any other fish we've ever bred, but I always like a challenge. The bio-film discussion was especially helpful, as I have never read of this being an issue with any other fish. The pair spawned again last Friday, so the fry should be free-swimming sometime next Friday (05/11). This time, I'll scrub and bleach the 2 1/2 gallon tank (yes, and rinse thoroughly) before I move the cave with the male and fry into it next Thursday. I've ordered some of the Repashy gel food, which I assume from the discussion, that I shouldn't place on the bottom, but rather on a small piece of slate or the sides of the tank to help prevent the formation of bacteria. I'll scrub the bottom and sides of the of the tank daily prior to doing water changes, and I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

I'll let you know if it works this time.

Thanks Again to everyone who responded,

Mark