pep fry dying

bre

bre

Member
Apr 21, 2009
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Newcastle, Australia
Hi guys, just wanting a few thoughts on causes.
Fry were 3cm when he purchased them from me in Jan. That particular batch of pep fry were a great batch, none had died.


I started with 16 on the 14/1/2010 lost 3 in the 1st month 2 due to standpipe cap came loose and they went down into the sump, i fixed the prob straight away. but in the last month i have lost another 8 of them.

After the 5th one died i removed all the baby cichlids that were in with them as i suspected they might have been getting big enough to pick on the peps. So they are in with cherry shrimp and lf albinos, The water temp was about 27 when they entered the tank but is now at 25.5. It has been a gradual drop

I have 5 left atm they all look healthy, but they don't go for the food like a normal bn they seem to just get the scraps should i remove all other fish?

500ltrs setup 4 tanks and sump(The one i got off u).
i vacuum 5ltrs of debries of the bottom of the tanks each day and refill 20 lts of rain or tap water every 2 days.allows for evaporation.
Once a month i clean the sump wool, pump and derbies from bottom of sump. Once a month i change 150ltrs, this water is aerated and heated to tank temp in a small plastic water tank 1 or 2 days b4 going into the setup.

No other fish are dying in the setup

Any ideas? I'm stuck
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I have 2 things that are crossing my mind, 1 is the rain water and 2nd is the sump clean. But would really like some other opinions.


Thanks.
 
D

Doodles

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
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barebottom tanks or substrate?

Also the temp being lower is going to slow their metabolism

Once a month water change might be better with once a week, the build up of nitrates etc etc probably won't hurt the fish but then a water change after a month could change the water parameters quite a lot.

If it was the rainwater, i would of thought maybe it would affect some of the other fish
The sump, maybe, depends if it is being cleaned too much.

my thoughts lol
 
scatz

scatz

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
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Devon, UK
seems odd.
he says he is removing 5ltrs of water daily (so 10ltrs over 2 days) and topping up with 20ltrs, so he's losing 10ltrs every 2 days (150ltrs a month) through evaporation right??
how does this effect the tds/nitrates in the tank?
the water that evaporates off is pure water and will leave the impurities behind, so over a month, i would think that the impurities would be fairly high wouldn't they:dk:
then doing a 150tr w/c each month wouldn't be enough to control it, does he test his water for tds, nitrates etc?
 
D

Doodles

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Apr 8, 2009
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he says he is removing 5ltrs of water daily (so 10ltrs over 2 days) and topping up with 20ltrs, so he's losing 10ltrs every 2 days (150ltrs a month) through evaporation right??
how does this effect the tds/nitrates in the tank?
the water that evaporates off is pure water and will leave the impurities behind, so over a month, i would think that the impurities would be fairly high wouldn't they
Click to expand...
Aye, i would think doing this everyday with tap water would def cause problems if doing a waterchange every month. The buildup would get quite high imo. RO is usually recommended for top ups.
What size is the tank they are in, i presume its 500litres altogether, all 4 tanks added up?

TDS meter is def something i would be getting
 
C

Catfishrok

Member
Jan 11, 2010
88
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newcastle nsw
Hi guys,

It's me who has been losing my peps:cry:

To answer a few questions:
Bare bottom no substrate
Feeding: algae pellets, nls grow and zucchini
TDS 195 i hadn't considered this b4. I borrowed a tds meter off a friend i have no idea what effect tds has on an aquarium if someone can help.
PH 7.8
Nitrite 0
Temp 25.5C
I told Bre a lie as well (sorry bre) I actually take about 5 to 6 liters of debris out a day and add 9 liters(thought it was a 20 ltr bucket:wb:)

i use rain water mostly for the 9 ltr refills but when i use tap water it is untreated.

In some of the other connecting tanks i have over 50 adult cherry shrimp a breeding trio of BN's with about 100 babies and i have experienced very low mortality rates with both of them.

Thanx hope u can help.
Let me know if there is anything else i should be testing or looking 4
 
C

Catfishrok

Member
Jan 11, 2010
88
0
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newcastle nsw
all my tanks seem to settle at around 7.7 to 8. The tap and rain water are both about 7.8 if i use chemical buffers or peat i can temperately lower it but it always seems to get back there.
 
D

Doodles

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
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The PH is quite high but i wouldnt think that was the reason. I also wouldn't use chemical buffers.

How often do you clean the bottoms of the tank?
You can get a build up of bacteria on bare bottom tanks which can be fatal if left too long to bottom dwellers and esp fry who aren't quite ready for fighting infections etc etc.

Just curious, but can you get RO from anywhere? especially for the top ups.

The TDS isnt high but with that PH, i would of thought it would of been higher especially if the water is also quite hard.

The TDS reading you just got, is that after a monthly water change or just before? or in between somewhere?
 
C

Catfishrok

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Jan 11, 2010
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newcastle nsw
water change was done 10 days ago
I clean the bottom of the tanks every day to get any mess usually take 1 to 1.5 ltrs out of each of the 4 tanks
RO water is not really an option atm
 
D

Doodles

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Apr 8, 2009
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I clean the bottom of the tanks every day to get any mess usually take 1 to 1.5 ltrs out of each of the 4 tanks
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Sorry maybe i should of been clearer, the bacteria that builds up does so like a film on the bottom of the tank, every so often you should try and give any bare bottom tanks a good scrub out.
 
D

Doodles

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Apr 8, 2009
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:thumbup:

Also check the TDS if you can, right before you do your monthly water change. I would consider doing a change weekly rather than monthly though.
 
C

Catfishrok

Member
Jan 11, 2010
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newcastle nsw
wow that was quite a read
I think i have a grasp on it now.
So my water is slightly hard, that makes sense.

Just on a side note :will electricity will not pass through RO water? So is it safe to bath with the hair dryer if u use RO water?
 
D

Doodles

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
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Just on a side note :will electricity will not pass through RO water? So is it safe to bath with the hair dryer if u use RO water?
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I guess so, water that has TDS thats under 50 doesn't conduct electricity according to the article but don't try it out lol. Mebbe one of our tech heads would be able to confirm that.
 
D

dw1305

Global Moderators
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May 5, 2009
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Wiltshire nr. Bath, UK
Hi all,
Just on a side note :will electricity will not pass through RO water? So is it safe to bath with the hair dryer if u use RO water?
Click to expand...
I don't fancy trying it either, but that is right H2O is an electrical insulator, it's only when it is is solution of ions "an electrolyte" that it is a conductor, and this is how a conductivity/TDS meter works it passes a current from 1 electrode to the other and measures what percentage of the current arrives.

The bath example wouldn't work very well because your skin is quite "leaky" and sweat etc is salty.

Salts are any compounds that disassociate into an anion and cation (so Na + and Cl- ions for sodium chloride "salt" NaCl or K+ NO3- for potassium nitrate etc.)

Shameless pinched from Wikipedia.
"When electrodes are placed in an electrolyte and a voltage is applied, the electrolyte will conduct electricity. Lone electrons normally cannot pass through the electrolyte; instead, a chemical reaction occurs at the cathode consuming electrons from the anode, and another reaction occurs at the anode producing electrons to be taken up by the cathode. As a result, a negative charge cloud develops in the electrolyte around the cathode, and a positive charge develops around the anode. The ions in the electrolyte move to neutralize these charges so that the reactions can continue and the electrons can keep flowing."

and bingo you are electrocuted.

cheers Darrel
 
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