Raising L174 fry.

[elaine]

I'm hoping a few of the experienced breeders can help me out here with my L174 fry. Don't seem to have a problem getting them to spawn, but the survival rate is not good atm. They don't seem to be absorbing the egg sack properly. I can usually tell which ones are likely to make it by how slim they are when they leave dad's cave. The slim ones generally make it, but the ones with more egg sack left just seem to perish.

I have 2 more lots of eggs in caves with dad right now, and worried I am causing the poor survival rate. I would like to try and improve this and make any changes necessary before this next lot of fry leave the cave.

Has anyone else had issues with very young L174 fry ?

Elaine

 

[Jo Crane]

I have heared this with a couple of breeders I must be lucky my fry just do fine treated as any other hypan - my breeding tank routine 10 -15% water change daily HMA water, fry fed morning and evening

 

[elaine]

Thanks Jo.

I do much the same, HMA water, at least 10% daily water changes and feed morning and evening.

I only got 2 fry first spawn and 7 fry last time, so maybe I'll get a few more this time round. The fry are just fine once they are past fully absorbing the egg sack. Do you think it will put itself right the more experienced the plecs get ?

Elaine

 

[thegeeman]

I have not bred 174 and i am not jealous at all. but I think Windy had a simillar problem a previous spawn. With his new spawn I think he has slowed up on water changes and had success

He will be on later I am sure

Cheers

thegeeman

 

[Bwhiskered]

I had a problem with my 174's. The fry would not absorb the egg sac but bloat and die. I treated the tank and parents with Metronidazole and have had no trouble since. The problem is most likely a a bacteria that the parents have that is passed though the parents to the egg killing the fry. This can also happen with discus and angels.

 

[Bigjohnnofish]

I had a problem with my 174's. The fry would not absorb the egg sac but bloat and die. I treated the tank and parents with Metronidazole and have had no trouble since. The problem is most likely a a bacteria that the parents have that is passed though the parents to the egg killing the fry. This can also happen with discus and angels.

mmm i've been having probs with 397's - sounds like it maybe a similar issue.... giving me some ideas... cheers :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[elaine]

Thanks guys, giving me something to think about.

 

[Jo Crane]

There is one thing that I do, do every few days in all our tanks that I am a bit obsessed with I wipe the inside glass and any other surface down with the rough side of a washing up sponge not the really course ones just the cheap tesco 14p a pack sponges simply because bacteria grows at a rapid rate on the glass it costs peanuts to do takes very little effort just throw the sponge after use, you can actually see a difference even after a few days I know that there can be a problem with fry in traps that get a bacteria build up but the inside of any tank is the same.

 

[elaine]

Thanks for the reply Jo.

Bit paranoid about that myself. I do the glass in the main tanks a couple of times a week and use a pastry brush to get into all the little nooks and crannies in the fry traps daily. Not exactly a domestic goddess, but I knew I'd find a use for my pastry brush LOL. It works a treat too !
Haven't had any trouble so far with the fry in the traps. They seem as strong as any of the other fry I have. The problem's at the very early stages absorbing the egg sack. Once past that they've been fine.

Fingers crossed for the fry and eggs I have in the caves with dad atm. I'm hoping it will be better this time as I don't know what I'm doing wrong. If it happens again, I'll have to try something else.

 

[Irene0100]

tell us more about the set up. what temp is thetank and what is your water like.
i don't clean my glass much as it disturbes the fish, just ocassionally clan teh front to help me see in. i have snails and cherry shrimp in the tank and they clean the surfaces of biofilm.

 

[plecoaddict]

Keep them at 82 (27 celsius) or just below, small water changes (add water slowly), clean glass and/or fry saver surface (I keep snails with mine and seems to do the job)

HTH
Chuck

 

[Irene0100]

I keep my L270 at 27C and my L46 at 30C so anywhere around there should be ok. I have a tds of about 200, scotish water is usually very soft i believe so may need some minerals adding?

 

[plecoaddict]

I mix RO and tap water to get 150 TDS...the L174 tank goes down to ~100 TDS tho for some reason..... I also heat the room to 26c so most of my tanks are around that temp except the zebras...the powerhead in their tank brings the temp up another degree.

 

[elaine]

Thanks for all the input guys.

My tank's 20 gal and been running a few years with regular maintenance. The water parameters are :

Temp 27C
PH 6.8
Nitrite Zero
Ammonia Zero
Nitrate < 10
KH 3/4 ( can't quite remember as it's been a while since I tested )
GH 4/5 ( can't quite remember as it's been a while since I tested )
TDS 50 - 55 ppm

I use lot's of bogwood and the water is always amber coloured. When I have eggs/fry in any of the tanks I usually add a conditioner with added electrolytes, vitamins and anti viral protector because my water is so soft. I have to do very regular w/c's to keep things stable.

The first lot of fry are due out of the cave in a few days and I'm really hoping they do better this time. Anything you think I should alter, please speak up ...... I want to give them the best chance I possibly can.

I'm starting to think the mineral content ( or lack of ) may have something to do with it. That said, all my other fry seem to do fairly well in it. I use HMA water now and have few problems with the quality.

 

[Andrew]

Elaine
It's probably what you don't want to hear, but all you can do is grin and bare it and leave them to it, through time your breeding 174s will get better at it.

You know the hassle i had with random deaths with my first pair of breeding zebras, as soon as the fry were leaving the cave the fry were dying.
For two years it was a nightmare, and then suddenly the random deaths stopped, after that, i only had the odd occasional random death.
I would like to claim it was something i did, but i can't, and i tried many a thing over the two years.
Over the past year or so things have been good, but just recently i lost half a brood of fry to random deaths from this pair.
I also noticed the female looked pretty beaten up after laying the eggs, maybe the male can be too rough at times, and the female struggles a lot when this happens, and the eggs don't get fertilized right.
Just an opinion.

Also, the reason i think it something to do with the parents, is that i now have another two pairs of breeding zebras that are doing fine, and i have only had two random deaths for one of these pairs, since they started breeding three/four months.
Plus i have/had other hypancistrus breed and raise fry fine in my tanks, infact the same time i was having trouble with my breeding zebras, a pair of L333 were breeding me out of tanks with all the fry they were producing.
I still can't understand how one pair of hypancistrus can do so well in my tanks, while with another pair, i was having a heck of a time.

I know it's frustrating and can really peeve you, but one day everything will suddenly start working right !

 

[elaine]

Thanks Andrew.

I have other breeding groups too that do just fine in my water. Same w/c routine as the L174's. Your probably right, best I can do is feed well and make sure the water is spot on for them. It is very frustrating getting the length of spawning, only to have fry perish soon after leaving dad's cave, but I don't know what else to try. Like you, I have tried several things to try and improve the survival rate, with limited success. Not an easy thing sitting back and leaving them to it LOL , but seems the best thing to do atm.

The first 3 fry left dad's cave last night and I put them in a fry saver with a group of 8 wk old fry from their last successful spawn. On checking this morning, the 3 little ones had found their way into the cave I have in the trap, and were scooting about the back of it with the older fry. Was quite pleased with this as all the fry that made it into the little cave before, did well. They look ok, better than the last lot of fry, so early signs are promising.

 

[elaine]

Hi Guys,

I have 10 fry out of dad's cave now and they look ok this time. Very early days yet to get too excited, but I am hopeful this time.

Thanks to everyone that offered help and advice, it is always appreciated !

Here's a few pics of the 'little ones' :

 

[Joby]

They seem to be absorbing the yolk sac nicely, well done and I hope they continue to develope :thumbup: