Tapwater, RO, HMA, wet/dry and plants

[L777]

Hi,

No problem. Its just that when you said you weren't going to add ferts it stuck out a mile in my mind. I've just closed down a high tech planted tank that I've been running for a few years now and I'm adjusting back into life without plants. They certainly take some looking after.

Its been said by many well respected planted tank enthusiasts that the spectrum specifics of the light output from florescent lighting isn't anywhere near as critical as is often thought and the majority believe that most plants will actually adjust to whatever spectrum is supplied.

Plants have a very complex respiratory system with photosynthesis playing a major role in there ability to function as an organism. There demand for carbon dioxide during light periods is directly proportional to the amount of light supplied. Therefore if your not artificially injecting co2 into the water column its best to keep the lights on the low side and for no more than 8 hours a day.

If you want to know more about plants then I can thoroughly recommend a website called UKAPS where your sure to find all the relevant information that you'll need.

Chris.

 

[IanB]

I see.. no, they're not out of the question.. and thanks for site recommendation, I'll bookmark it for later..

I don't want to go hardcore plants or anything.. just a few nice ones.. hiding places for the mid-swimmers and aesthetically pleasing...

I may have an RO by the weekend, until I get down to the nitty gritty of HMA or re-mineralising, it seems fine to dose with the rejected RO water?

Once I know what parameters I need to achieve.. of course.

If we ever move house again, the final decision will be made on whether it's hard or soft water.. this is a flipping nightmare. :yes:

 

[L777]

I don't want to go hardcore plants or anything.. just a few nice ones.. hiding places for the mid-swimmers and aesthetically pleasing...

Mmmm. Good luck.

I may have an RO by the weekend, until I get down to the nitty gritty of HMA or re-mineralising, it seems fine to dose with the rejected RO water?

Not the rejected RO water that'll be concentrated with all the nasties your RO water filtered out, you definitely don't want them back in your tank. Just cut it with tap water to start with. Dechlorinate the tapwater first of course and mix it at a ratio to suit you. In the first post if I remember correctly your water was 25dgh. For discus you want it to be soft so aim for about 6-8 dgh so a ratio of 1part tapwater to 3 parts RO will give you about 8dgh. You'll need to watch how low your KH goes though ideally its best not to let it drop much below 4kh as this is the buffer which keeps your PH stable. If it does drop its just a mater of adding bicarbonate of soda (or potassium carbonate which is even better but harder to get hold of) into the tank a bit at a time until the desired level is reached.

Don't try to adjust the PH with chemicals unless you really understand what it is your doing as this can cause a lot more harm than it does good, despite the manufacturers blurb on the side of the packaging.

The above is just general advice and not necessarily the only way to do things. Its more aimed at just getting you started.

Chris.

 

[macvsog23]

Mmmm. Good luck.






Not the rejected RO water that'll be concentrated with all the nasties your RO water filtered out, you definitely don't want them back in your tank. Just cut it with tap water to start with. Dechlorinate the tapwater first of course and mix it at a ratio to suit you. In the first post if I remember correctly your water was 25dgh. For discus you want it to be soft so aim for about 6-8 dgh so a ratio of 1part tapwater to 3 parts RO will give you about 8dgh. You'll need to watch how low your KH goes though ideally its best not to let it drop much below 4kh as this is the buffer which keeps your PH stable. If it does drop its just a mater of adding bicarbonate of soda (or potassium carbonate which is even better but harder to get hold of) into the tank a bit at a time until the desired level is reached.

Don't try to adjust the PH with chemicals unless you really understand what it is your doing as this can cause a lot more harm than it does good, despite the manufacturers blurb on the side of the packaging.

The above is just general advice and not necessarily the only way to do things. Its more aimed at just getting you started.

Chris.

Chris

i beg to disagree about the rejected water from an RO Unit
This water is just what it is called "Rejected" as it has passed through a pre filter of around 10 Microns and a carbon block filter it is purer than tap water.
The "nasties" people refer to will be trapped in the membrane of the R/O unit.
To prove this do a TDS check on the rejected water and your tap water.

It is a common misconception that rejected water is less pure than tap water.

Regards Bob

 

[IanB]

To prove this do a TDS check on the rejected water and your tap water.

It is a common misconception that rejected water is less pure than tap water.

Regards Bob

Saw one of your posts last night with a comparison on rejected RO vs Tap... that's why I figured it'd be the way to go (even if only to start with)..

Aimed on running the outlets to a container each and playing with ratios (does the 3 parts RO to 1 part rejected still stand if I'm starting at 25dgh?)

Do I need to test both hardness or just KH?

 

[L777]

Hi,

Ok I get what your saying Bob about the rejected tapwater having gone through both the sediment and carbon block filters and it makes perfect sense, so scrub my last comment about it I was wrong.:dk:

Never really give it much thought before as I use 100% remineralised RO and have done for years now.

Chris.

 

[L777]

Aimed on running the outlets to a container each and playing with ratios (does the 3 parts RO to 1 part rejected still stand if I'm starting at 25dgh?)

Do I need to test both hardness or just KH?

Hi,

Yes the ratio's will still stand as a starting point and you should be checking both GH and KH just to confirm its all alright.

Chris.

 

[IanB]

Nice one chap.. thanks.. better buy a couple more test kits (and a TDS meter..)..

Where does it all end?? :dk:

 

[L777]

Hi,

It doesn't. There's always something.:lol::lol::lol:

Chris.

 

[IanB]

RO unit is en-route.. kids have reluctantly agreed to 'Fin' (the Gibbi) going..

Need some water containers and test kits now.. bit of luck Wifey will dig deep for those..

 

[Sambo]

control your flow at the source to two litres per minute for best results it's fantastic kit plumb it into your old hot washing machine plumbing (with the hose and fittings provided) it has a red tap to control flow and switch on or off, this is better than using the tap supplied to control flow- replace media once a year for say discus use or the amount discus would use rather, I run three tanks from this source, 1 vision 260 discus, a 45 litre nano and a 90 litre shrimp and they are the best of my tanks absolutely thriving- without ro water, just rain evaporation top up

 

[IanB]

Isn't it supposed to run off the cold supply?

I have a cold washing machine type tap in where our fridge is.. would have been for a dishwasher

 

[L777]

Hi,

I have mine plumbed into the cold water supply with no problems and always thought this was the way it's supposed to be. The pressure is normally far greater on the cold supply due to it usually being fed directly from the mains and not via a header tank as the hot water will be.

Membranes work much more efficiently with higher pressure and about 80psi is an ideal working pressure. I doubt you'll get very much pressure at all from a hot water storage tank.

Chris.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
It will have to be a quick answer, as I'm still in S. Germany until next week (it is as hot as hell here - 35oC).

IanB you have 3 questions, your tap water is both very hard (calcium Ca and bi-carbonate HCO3 rich) and almost certainly rich in the 3 plant macro-nutrients N-P-K (Nitrogen, Phosphorus & Potassium) as well. It is also almost certainly deficient in some of the micro-nutrients like Iron (Fe) and Magnesium (Mg).

The only way of removing the hardness (26dKH) is an RO unit. As a comparison your water is somewhere in between Lake Malawi and L. Tanganyka in hardness, compared to the main Amazon which would be 4 or 5dKH, and the Rio Negro which would be 0dKH.

We really need to know the amount of solutes in the water, this is in some ways more important than the pH as the water becomes softer, this is the reason for the TDS meter, it tells you the salts content of your water.Again to use the reat Rift Lakes, they will somewhere about 800 - 1200 microS (550 - 750 ppm TDS), the Amazon about 50 - 100 TDS, and the Rio Negro less than 10.

Because you live in ana intensive arable area it is quite likely that your water may contain traces of agricultural pesticides (mainly herbicides) and possibly chloramine, the HMA filter will remove these and any Heavy Metals, although it is extremely unlikely that you will have any HM's present.

Water that has passed through both a HMA and RO fiilter will be devoid of all minerals and contaminants, including those essential for plant and animal life. These have been removed by the RO filter.

You are lucky because your tap water is similar to Bob's (Macvsog), just a bit harder. You can follow the advice in the HMA/RO thread to give you suitable water for Hypancistrus, Ancistrus & various whip-tails keeping, and from there we can probably conclude for most other L numbers. If you want to keep Discus You may need to increase the proportion of RO further.

I agree with L777 advice for plants, these require enough light as their first requirement, if you have floating plants they have access to aerial CO2, and first "use" of the light. If these won't grow you probably need more light intensity (you can't make up for low light intensity with a longer photo-period.). If you buy the "all in one" fertiliser food from one of our sponsors, you should be sorted. PM next week and I'll sort out some plants for you.

cheers Darrel

 

[IanB]

Cheers Darrel.. :thumbup:
35 degrees is a heck of a heat. Only experienced that sort of temp once before (for 2 weeks on Cyprus) and it was awful..

I have a TDS meter and API liquid tests for GH & KH on their way.. results as soon as everything lands and I've read the instructions :yes:

 

[L777]

Hi,

Its all quite straight forward but just a little tip I find when doing the GH test is to do two at a time i.e. two test tubes but staggered 1 drop of test fluid apart. Its much easier then to see when the colour changes as you have a point of reference on what the colour was in the tube that's lagging 1 drop behind if that makes sense.

The KH test is a very obvious colour change and the TDS just a matter of turning the meter on and dipping it in the water.

Chris.

 

[macvsog23]

A spot on tip

 

[IanB]

Just done the GH & KH tests..

GH took 24 drops and KH took 16... the conversion table in the kit only goes up to 12 drops :whistle:

 

[L777]

Hi,

Yeah but it makes no difference you have 24dgh and 16kh.

So cutting it at a ratio of 3 parts RO to 1 part tap/rejected water will give you a gh of 6 and a kh of 4, absolutely perfect.

Chris.

 

[IanB]

Brilliant, thanks.. RO unit turned up (still waiting for TDS meter) and we're on a water container mission today.. kinda running out of cash though, which sucks..

Soon as the water's ready the Gibbiceps is going - he's not eating the plants which is due, in part, because most of them are floating again.. don't want to let him go before them otherwise there'd be no load on the filter..