Questions regarding GH & KH

[Plecomate]

Hi all, Just a quick question. How necessary is it to test the GH & KH for breeding L134s? Should I be testing these if I want to breed them or its not totally important? What should the GH & KH be for breeding? and im guessing we adjust these parameters through WC.

Many thanks

 

[bigbird]

my suggestion is and would be to firstly let them settle in. You have had then for 4weeks now and they do not breed just like that. Take a step back, feed them a variety of foods and let them settle in. SYD water is normally fine for GH and KH. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[Lornek8]

Actually its pretty important. Could possibly be more important than pH. If you do manage to get them spawn, water with values outside a particular gH, KH range could affect hatching and/or egg development.

GH & KH are the measures of the amont of minerals in the water. Tap water normally has a particular GH & KH depending upon where your water source is from. For peope who have naturally hard water out of the tap (lots of minerals) all the water changes in the world won't make a difference. This is the reason for all the discussion regarding RO water. RO water is as close to pure water as you can get (no minerals). Thus a combination of tap water & RO or other sources can get you to the desired values. Substances like coral or sand (beach) tend to raise the hardness, tannins from driftwood tend to lower the hardness.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Like Lornek says they are very relevant and for soft water almost certainly more useful than pH. You can get a ball park figure with either a conductivity meter and/or dKH & dGH test kit.

You don't need very soft water, but below about 200 TDS, 4dKH & 4dGH is required.

Have a look at Bob's RO thread. <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8754> and <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8904>

In the UK we can get values from our water companies as well, not sure about in the US or Aus.

cheers Darrel

 

[Plecomate]

Bigbird. I am taking it slow and I know that they have to settle in. Just asking some questions regarding it.

Thanks guys for that. Well as bigbird has said SYD water is fairly soft but good to test for it I guess. So basically 200tds & 4 Gh and Kh. Is it more worthwhile to get a TSS meter than spend $20 on GH and KH test kits?

Thanks

 

[Lornek8]

Bigbird. I am taking it slow and I know that they have to settle in. Just asking some questions regarding it.

Thanks guys for that. Well as bigbird has said SYD water is fairly soft but good to test for it I guess. So basically 200tds & 4 Gh and Kh. Is it more worthwhile to get a TSS meter than spend $20 on GH and KH test kits?

Thanks

Tds isn't a direct measure of GH or KH as tested by the kits. As Kh is part of GH, it can be important to know the makeu-up of the water especially if the water chemistry is a bit funky. It really depends how you plan to adjust water chemistry if needed.

 

[Plecomate]

Ok thanks. Well my water quality is very good. Is it neccessary to test this and get a TDS meter to bred l134s?

Thanks

 

[lcrazy]

KH 4-12 , IMO, never had any issues, awsome product is KH7 powder from Aquapics, nutrilizes ph and ups KH to 4, water out my way comes out the tap KH -0

 

[Plecomate]

Ok thanks mate. Will look into it

 

[Lornek8]

Ok thanks. Well my water quality is very good. Is it neccessary to test this and get a TDS meter to bred l134s?

Thanks

What is very good?
If you can't answer this and it concerns you then you should test.
By all means you should test before going and adding anyhting to your water. The results you get from various chemicals and buffers can vary considerably with the water you start with.

If you think you water is "very good" then you could always just let them go & see what happens.

 

[Plecomate]

Sorry, the PH levels and the quality of the water its clean. By very good thats what I meant. The filtration is tops, The water is clean.

 

[L777]

Sorry, the PH levels and the quality of the water its clean. By very good thats what I meant. The filtration is tops, The water is clean.

Hi,

The water out of my tap 'looks' clean but is very very hard.

IMO I wouldn't be without my TDS meter and master test kit. I don't even know if you could legitimately lay claim to having 'bred' anything without ensuring the water quality was correct.

Effectively without the proper checks you've just been lucky if they do breed.

Chris.

 

[Plecomate]

Ok thanks, Going to get a TDS meter, any from ebay good?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Going to get a TDS meter, any from ebay good?

Should be all right, you need a "low range" meter that reads in micro Siemens.

Hanna is a good make that should be available in Australia. You can buy the calibration solution, or make your own from KCl.

They all actually measure conductivity rather than TDS, and the conversion from conductivity in microS to ppm TDS is 100microS = 64 ppm TDS.

cheers Darrel

 

[Plecomate]

Thanks mate, Will look into it

 

[L777]

Hi all,
Should be all right, you need a "low range" meter that reads in micro Siemens.

Hanna is a good make that should be available in Australia. You can buy the calibration solution, or make your own from KCl.

They all actually measure conductivity rather than TDS, and the conversion from conductivity in microS to ppm TDS is 100microS = 64 ppm TDS.

cheers Darrel

Hi,

But I believe that's done automatically by the meter so when you read off the TDS in ppm the conversion factor has already been applied. Could be wrong on that though its just how I understood it to work.

How do you make your own calibration solution?

Chris.

 

[Plecomate]

Thats what I would have though :l

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

But I believe that's done automatically by the meter so when you read off the TDS in ppm the conversion factor has already been applied.

I expect so, analytically you don't use a meter to measure TDS, you use evaporation and a very accurate balance, so the lab meters only measure in microS or salinity etc.

The calibration solution can use either potassium chloride (KCl) or salt, (NaCl) you actually get pretty close with water softener salt or cooking salt if you can't get either chloride as a pure salt.

The easiest to buy or make is probably the 342ppm NaCl solution, this is 700 µ(micro)S and 448ppm TDS. This is the conversion factor for KCl.

342ppm NaCl = 362ppm as KCl and 700 µS at 25oC

This solution is 342 micrograms (0.000342g) of NaCl in 1 litre of RO water, but because working with very small weights is difficult, I'd go for 34.2g of NaCl in 1 litre of RO as a stock solution= stock solution 1.,

Take 10cm3 of stock solution 1. (you can do this as 10g), and make up to 1000cm3 with RO, this is now 0.342g of NaCl in 1000 cm3 of water = stock solution 2.

Take 10g of stock solution 2 and dilute to 1litre with RO, this is now 0.00342g NaCl in 1 litre = stock solution 3.

Take 10cm3 of stock solution 3, and make this up to 100cm3 with RO, this solution is now the 342ppm NaCl and should read 700 microS or 448 ppm TDS.

cheers Darrel

 

[L777]

I expect so, analytically you don't use a meter to measure TDS, you use evaporation and a very accurate balance, so the lab meters only measure in microS or salinity etc.
cheers Darrel

Hi Darrel,

Yes I read the article (3 times now, LOL) that you posted up the other day which has quite a bit about it in so got a handle on how its all related from that.

Making that calibration solution seems like a lot of faffing about, think I'll just buy some if / when I need it. In your opinion should I need to calibrate my hand held TDS meter regularly?

I've had this one about 5 years now and never calibrated it.

Chris.

 

[Plecomate]

mm Very interesting thanks