the sale of illegally imported plecs

[intrepidmax]

there is some really good posts in this thread. Im with st24rap on the fact that if they are in this country already then I would buy them and if I dont buy them someone else will anyway...and also Mr G's post that we should lower prices to drop the hype. (IMO especially for new people who are passionate about plecs) and the fact that I think most people on this site are out for the breeding and not a quick buck. I hope that one day I will have one or two of Gee's and Kevs young hypans all grown up and breeding.

 

[Rabbit]

Im with the ban coinciding with the exportation laws.
HTH

 

[bikerman6660]

I keep seeing this reference about 'making a quick buck' as far as zebs are concerned. I wish someone would show me how as I have had some form of livestock all of my life and have yet to come across any from which you could make a quick buck. In my experience there is a lot of effort, and often heartbreak when things go wrong, involed in keeping livestock. Invariably the returns if any only form a percentage of money laid out for stock, tanks, food and electricity. The true reward is the pleasure of keeping whatever fish or animal you are interested in and watching them thrive, exhibit natural behaviour and hopefully breed at some point.

 

[FF MkII]

I keep seeing this reference about 'making a quick buck' as far as zebs are concerned. I wish someone would show me how as I have had some form of livestock all of my life and have yet to come across any from which you could make a quick buck. In my experience there is a lot of effort, and often heartbreak when things go wrong, involed in keeping livestock. Invariably the returns if any only form a percentage of money laid out for stock, tanks, food and electricity. The true reward is the pleasure of keeping whatever fish or animal you are interested in and watching them thrive, exhibit natural behaviour and hopefully breed at some point.

:goodpost:

Once he gets round to breeding some plecs im sure intrepidmax will know what your talking about.

 

[timkel]

I keep seeing this reference about 'making a quick buck' as far as zebs are concerned. I wish someone would show me how as I have had some form of livestock all of my life and have yet to come across any from which you could make a quick buck. In my experience there is a lot of effort, and often heartbreak when things go wrong, involed in keeping livestock. Invariably the returns if any only form a percentage of money laid out for stock, tanks, food and electricity. The true reward is the pleasure of keeping whatever fish or animal you are interested in and watching them thrive, exhibit natural behaviour and hopefully breed at some point.

:goodpost:

 

[intrepidmax]

yeah lol once I get round to pulling my finger out my jacksie ya mean. Im in the process of moving house (any excuse) pmsl. But im sure once I do start to breed hypans I will make just enough to cover food costs. lol.

 

[thegeeman]

I keep seeing this reference about 'making a quick buck' as far as zebs are concerned. I wish someone would show me how as I have had some form of livestock all of my life and have yet to come across any from which you could make a quick buck. In my experience there is a lot of effort, and often heartbreak when things go wrong, involed in keeping livestock. Invariably the returns if any only form a percentage of money laid out for stock, tanks, food and electricity. The true reward is the pleasure of keeping whatever fish or animal you are interested in and watching them thrive, exhibit natural behaviour and hopefully breed at some point.

My reference to a "quick buck" was aimed at the people who import fish that have been smuggled out of Brazil illegally and not people who breed. I am totally aware of the time, money and effort it takes to breed fish. Not sure about the heartache bit, More like Ear ache from mrs gee " you love those bloody fish more than me blah blah blah"

I tell you what though, I am seriously considering setting up big time importing and breeding fish on a large scale when I move and I DO rekon I could make good money out of it.

Cheers

thegeeman

 

[BombHead666]

I'm afraid, IMO, the cost ie electric, food blah blah blah EVERYBODY pays regardless if you keep 10 a penny BNs or the mythical Zeb and whatever the scale of your set-up.
If you have to moan about the cost, its simple, sell up and save your money.

 

[intrepidmax]

My reference to a "quick buck" was aimed at the people who import fish that have been smuggled out of Brazil illegally and not people who breed. I am totally aware of the time, money and effort it takes to breed fish. Not sure about the heartache bit, More like Ear ache from mrs gee " you love those bloody fish more than me blah blah blah"

I tell you what though, I am seriously considering setting up big time importing and breeding fish on a large scale when I move and I DO rekon I could make good money out of it.

Cheers

thegeeman

yeah my missus is the same....all she does is winge about my fish....im fed up of hearing it she says. well im fed up of hearing her moan at me...grrrr.

Gee if you wanna go big time and I have finally bred any of my hypans then I would be happy to help out where I can.

 

[scatz]

thanks to all that participated in this discussion, some very interesting points of view.
we have decided that we will not be allowing ads for newly imported fish that are banned from export.

this thread will stay open for now though as there is a lot of interesting posts being made.
thanks to all

 

[pleco-island]

surely it should be like a tv program..

IF YOU DONT WANT TO WATCH IT TURN IT OVER, IN OTHER WORDS DONT LOOK AT THE AD OR BUY THEM...SOME PEOPLE AH

LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG IF YOUR LIVES

 

[scatz]

its more the fact that the fish on the lists are protected species, and therefore, we cant openly support the illegal trade in them.
of course its up to every individual to decide their ethical stand point and wether to buy recently imported fish, but we as a site have to respect the fact that IBAMA has put these fish under protection, we cannot promote the continued capture and sale of them when Brazil is trying to stop it, wether IBAMA is right or wrong to impose the ban is a political decision that isn't for us to argue with.
There is no question that they have been exported from Brazil illegally, so we cant encourage people to break the law just for our enjoyment or our pockets

 

[Akraziatic]

I know I have come too late for the final decision however I feel as pleco-fanatics it is somewhat our role to contribute to the preservation of these species. Zoo's are not only for public enjoyment but are based around conservation projects

Take a look at the axolotl (not a plec I know but a case in point). Due to urbanisation they are nearing extinction (maybe we should ban urbanisation???).. There's no way I would of thought it would be endangered in the wild because you see atleast 4 in every lfs. Do you think there will be a day when axolotl's become hundreds of dollars??? Unfortunately there is implications with reintroducing them but with most fish this would not be so much of a problem. The amazing thing with fish is that they are never fully domesticated, unlike other animals which once domesticated would not survive in the wild.

Whilst illegal exporting does have some ethical standing and buy all means the law should be abided by, however I still believe we must do our bit to try and keep these species thriving. Unfortunately this has lead to the economic side of fish keeping which in most ways creates a demand for the fish.

I don't have a problem of the prices that most plecs are going for because the way I see it is that only commited individuals will pay those prices for those species. When I first got into the hobby I wouldn't even think of paying more than $40 a fish, but now some fish I'm looking at for $200 I see as reasonable. This is only because I am committed to these species, yes I want these fish but I'm not going to just throw them in a tank and see how they go. and another I would think it would be sad the day when zebra plecs (or other sought after plecs) are affordable to the novice aquarist and are not as prized as they are now. I would think that once even goldfish and guppies were once prized (hard to believe), but what have they come to now? Most often in the hands of inexperienced (which is by no means bad, we all were once) or even feeder fish....

I admire the forums stance on the issue where other forums I would think just turn a cheek but I do believe there should be some sort of system in place where these species which we do have can be shared to preserve the species as a whole.

I'm not pretending to have the right answer but just what I think of the situation... Maybe we need "sleepovers" to make pairs and prevent the aforementioned inbreeding or more practically a trade/swap agreement between two members who are confident enough in each other where they feel that neither is exploiting the commodotity that unfortunately are our plecs..

Just my $2..

 

[plecmom]

Yes there is a simple answer. Your a forum, not the police. You're not expected to verify the claim of every advert put on here so you to take it in good faith that the sale is legit. If however, someone claims they have L260 for sale which are recently imported from Peru and wild caught then you have a duty to tell them to go **** themselves and delete the ad.

It's common sense, if it's obviously illegal don't allow it.

I agree! :goodpost: