the sale of illegally imported plecs
- Thread starter scatz
- Start date
Totally against it the ban is in force for a reason not too make greedy dealers even more money by inflating prices even more than they are now, there is enough top quality captive bred fish in the hobby to keep us all going till the ban is lifted
I
intrepidmax
Guest
IMO I think personally that the sale of wild and banned fish should be sold to us, I dont think brazil will ever get its act together or give a crap about the fish. but alot of us who use the plec sites do give a crap and want to see the species live on.
How many of us would be gutted if a single well known L number just dissapeared from the wild.......and we done nothing about it. (its probably happening already)
I know I would be.
Look me up in ten years time when you cant get L66 and L333......hopefully by then I might have a bit of on-growing stock you could buy from me.
I will do what I can to breed and keep breeding the fish I love and keep these soon to be endangered (if not already) fish alive so everyone can enjoy them.
How many of us would be gutted if a single well known L number just dissapeared from the wild.......and we done nothing about it. (its probably happening already)
I know I would be.
Look me up in ten years time when you cant get L66 and L333......hopefully by then I might have a bit of on-growing stock you could buy from me.
I will do what I can to breed and keep breeding the fish I love and keep these soon to be endangered (if not already) fish alive so everyone can enjoy them.
:goodpost: best post on this thread and sums up the situation really.
IF PP believe the add is in anyway suspect then delete it and inform the member of why you made the decision.
Maybe we should also look at why this market is so well fueled with buyers. I like to think that people who have bought hypans from me have had a very good deal and go on to inturn breed using my fish. Thats what rings my bell not money. I cant wait for the day someone tells me they have had a spawn and one of my babies was a parent:woohoo:.
Hopefully the more that are captive bred and sold/swopped not just between other breeders but also people new to the hobby and keen to have a go at breeding them the less there will be a call for removing them from the wild. I am not going to harp on about zebs because the hype around them really winds me up BUT think of it like this IF people are keen to have a go at breeding zebs and start to look around the market they are going to come across babies being sold for 100 and a few adds down Wild caught adult zebs for 150. Now bearing in mind the length of time it takes for them to grow to adult size then I am pretty sure I know which route there gonna take. I know several members who are doing there bit and thinking more of the fish and not there back pockets & i also know of members who are concerned that IF they dropped there prices that someone else will then go onto make the profits. Maybe IF all of the breeders out there took a stand and started to drop there price then the hype would quickly disappear and also then the high prices they command at present will drop and then goodbye money spinners out for a quick buck.
This is just my opinion and i am in know way targeting specific members but maybe all the "zeb protection society" need to take a long hard look at themselves and decide wether they are actually in it for the money or the protection of they fish.
Right I am off to put my tin hat on
Cheers
thegeeman
:goodpost::goodpost: best post on this thread and sums up the situation really.
IF PP believe the add is in anyway suspect then delete it and inform the member of why you made the decision.
Maybe we should also look at why this market is so well fueled with buyers. I like to think that people who have bought hypans from me have had a very good deal and go on to inturn breed using my fish. Thats what rings my bell not money. I cant wait for the day someone tells me they have had a spawn and one of my babies was a parent:woohoo:.
Hopefully the more that are captive bred and sold/swopped not just between other breeders but also people new to the hobby and keen to have a go at breeding them the less there will be a call for removing them from the wild. I am not going to harp on about zebs because the hype around them really winds me up BUT think of it like this IF people are keen to have a go at breeding zebs and start to look around the market they are going to come across babies being sold for 100 and a few adds down Wild caught adult zebs for 150. Now bearing in mind the length of time it takes for them to grow to adult size then I am pretty sure I know which route there gonna take. I know several members who are doing there bit and thinking more of the fish and not there back pockets & i also know of members who are concerned that IF they dropped there prices that someone else will then go onto make the profits. Maybe IF all of the breeders out there took a stand and started to drop there price then the hype would quickly disappear and also then the high prices they command at present will drop and then goodbye money spinners out for a quick buck.
This is just my opinion and i am in know way targeting specific members but maybe all the "zeb protection society" need to take a long hard look at themselves and decide wether they are actually in it for the money or the protection of they fish.
Right I am off to put my tin hat on
Cheers
thegeeman
IBAMA have enforced the ban that has already been present for ages(2006), hypans were being shipped out as peckoltia Ls as these are on the 'white' list, everyone was looking the other way, the situation was getting out of control, IBAMA then had a new boss who had no choice but to enforce the ban in order to gain back the control. Hypans and others but not L046(which was banned due to diminishing numbers) will be added to the 'white' list probably described species first, tey are also trying to describe more species but they are overstretched covering such a big area, hence this could take time but it is thought that more plecs will be available for export in around six months or so
And IBAMA are lobbying as they always have against the building of the dams.
The dams may be built, they may not, anything can happen in between now and then, and then theres the issue of large quantities of the Amazon forest being cut down and the effects of climate change.
Thats my take on the situation after spending most of today looking into it, anyone who knows better feel free to correct me.
And IBAMA are lobbying as they always have against the building of the dams.
The dams may be built, they may not, anything can happen in between now and then, and then theres the issue of large quantities of the Amazon forest being cut down and the effects of climate change.
Thats my take on the situation after spending most of today looking into it, anyone who knows better feel free to correct me.
Why is it that Hypancistrus (specifically H. zebra) are the only ones getting all the attention? They seem to be a particularly emotive species. Spare a thought for the ugly plecs that have yet to be captive bred but still are being threatened.
I dont whant to support the illegal trade of plecs but when it comes down to it the people getting them into whatever country are always going to find an outlet and id much preffer the fish whent to me in the right state of mind to continue the captive breeding and further the species wild popullations by dropping the local market price.
But it still comes back to the fact iv just supported the illegal market.
Its a hard topic no doubt about.
But it still comes back to the fact iv just supported the illegal market.
Its a hard topic no doubt about.
:yes: my thoughts exactly
if i dont buy them someone else will. I dont go out looking for purely for wild caught fish, but if i am after something and i find wild caught that is already in the country i will buy it, if i dont the next person along will.
At any cost
Look at the statistics of survival rates for fish that are wild caught and exported--its estimated and this is optimistic that 50% reach the aquarium, then you have another statistic that 66% of fish die within the first year of being in an aquarium.
That's bad enough
Then you have smuggled fish being taken out in uncontrolled, and sometimes undesirable enviroments, the stastics for survival will be much lower. Then you have more stressed and sick fish reaching fish tanks, even less of a chance of survival once in the aquarium, then there's the increased risk to existing stock in the aquarium, cos lets face it not everyone quarantines new fish. And then theres the increase in price.
What does smuggling do to the survival chances of a fish?
Its a question of leaving 1 to assured death in order to save a population i guess.
I would imagin from the quantity taken to what is left after a year would be around the 15-20% mark in regards to plecs.
I would imagin from the quantity taken to what is left after a year would be around the 15-20% mark in regards to plecs.
if the fish was already in this country and for sale and was something i wanted then yes, im not saying i would go and deliberately try to track down someone that would import the fish over here just for me but if it had been imported to the uk already and was for sale and was something i wanted i would buy it, like i said if i didnt then someone else would.At any cost
Look at the statistics of survival rates for fish that are wild caught and exported--its estimated and this is optimistic that 50% reach the aquarium, then you have another statistic that 66% of fish die within the first year of being in an aquarium.
That's bad enough
Then you have smuggled fish being taken out in uncontrolled, and sometimes undesirable enviroments, the stastics for survival will be much lower. Then you have more stressed and sick fish reaching fish tanks, even less of a chance of survival once in the aquarium, then there's the increased risk to existing stock in the aquarium, cos lets face it not everyone quarantines new fish. And then theres the increase in price.
What does smuggling do to the survival chances of a fish?
Looking at the poll I am quite suprised to see the results are mixed. I would have thought the vote would have been a landslide in favour of banning illegal imports. Just goes to show we all feel differently about the situation and all have different reasons.
I hope Mark and darkstar do not vanish from the forum as they are both knowledgeable fish keepers and I understand there views on the subject.
Love and hugs
thegeeman
I hope Mark and darkstar do not vanish from the forum as they are both knowledgeable fish keepers and I understand there views on the subject.
Love and hugs
thegeeman
Personal opinion is fine, even if i might not agree with it.
I've spoken to Brian about this thread and further clarification from Brian has shown that my initial concerns weren't warranted. Basically it's not like they deciding whether to ignore posts which state illegally exported fish (which I would leave over) but more a case of how to deal with posts which they believe might be offering illegally exported fish. I still think the process on how to deal with them is fairly basic but then I'm not the one having to deal with the posts, so in some respects it's much easier for me to form an opinion and stick with it.